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Cast for concert documentary
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Okay, I am working on a concert documentary. In the end credits it does have a cast list.

However, throughout the documentary there are people interviewed and their name and "role" is shown on screen.

Question is how to include these people who aren't included in the end credits cast list?
Do I list them first, before the end credits cast?
Combine them together in the order shown during the documentary?
List them last? Perhaps as uncredited?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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The rules tell us to list actors who are listed in the opening credits but not in the end credits first (Cast paragraph of the Credits section of the rules).

I would treat these the same way. They ARE credited, after all.
I have done the same in the past with people being interviewed during documentaries, with captions providing the credits. Seems comparable to me.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLithurge
Paralysis by analysis
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Seems it could fall under this part of the rule to me, although it could be argued that the documentary is separate so doesn't count. At the very least you could use uncredited with data from the doc.

Quote:
If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits.
IVS Registered: January 2, 2002
 Last edited: by Lithurge
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
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I just did a faux doc that had quite a few people tagged on screen like that who weren't in the end credits. These felt like easy to confirm uncredited in that case, but not sure if that is what should be done for an actual doc. I twas also confirmed/approved the other day.
I do agree with Lith though, easy confirmed uncredited at the very least.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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If they have their name on screen, they are NOT uncredited.  dee1959jat has it right.
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There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
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We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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Since they are neither credited in the opening credits (if there are any) nor with the end credits, I'd vote for uncredited cast after the cast which is credited within the end credits. - Maybe with a divider in front of them, explaining the situation...

At least, since they seem not to be important enough to be mentioned within end credits, I'd strongly vote against crediting in front of the officially credited cast...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDiscostu
I'm sorry, Dave.
Registered: October 17, 2010
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Since they are neither credited in the opening credits (if there are any) nor with the end credits, I'd vote for uncredited cast after the cast which is credited within the end credits. - Maybe with a divider in front of them, explaining the situation...


I don't think a group divider should be used for explanations, these can be given in the contribution notes. Otherwise I agree with you. According to the rules, only cast appearing in the opening or end credits are credited cast.
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 Last edited: by Discostu
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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Quoting Discostu:
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I don't think a group divider should be used for explanations, these can be given in the contribution notes. Otherwise I agree with you. According to the rules, only cast appearing in the opening or end credits are credited cast.


Explaining the situation was l little bit over the top. What I meant was somenthing like: "Attendees subtitled throughout the Documentary:" - Although I'm still not able to create a short but meaningful Englisch wording...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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The rules do not say that credits only come as either opening or end credits (they even speak of "credited elsewhere"). They only define standard credits as being end credits.

Hence the exact location of credits within a film, documentary etc. doen't matter.

The same goes for the form of credits. I have once come across a case in which credits were provided orally: spoken instead of in writing. Are those standard credits? No. Are these people uncredited? No. They ARE credited, just in an unusual way.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDiscostu
I'm sorry, Dave.
Registered: October 17, 2010
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
The rules do not say that credits only come as either opening or end credits (they even speak of "credited elsewhere"). They only define standard credits as being end credits.

Hence the exact location of credits within a film, documentary etc. doen't matter.


Did you not read the whole rules or why are you quoting parts of them out of context?

- If there are end credits, they have to be used for the cast section of the profile.
- If there is cast credited in the opening credits that is missing in the end credits, it can be added.
- Adding cast that is "credited elsewhere" is only allowed if there are no end credits.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Yes, and?

Where in there does it say that only opening and end credits count as credits?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDiscostu
I'm sorry, Dave.
Registered: October 17, 2010
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Yes, and?

Where in there does it say that only opening and end credits count as credits?


Nowhere because the rules are about the sources for cast data and not about the definition of the term "credits".
Recently bought films:

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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The discussion, as I understood it, was about whether these interviewees should be marked as uncredited. As the rules do not limit the concept of credits to opening and end credits and, moreover, speak of 'credited elsewhere', my opnion is that there is no need to mark them as uncredited.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Discostu:
Quote:
Nowhere because the rules are about the sources for cast data and not about the definition of the term "credits".

True, but, for cast, they are about the definition of the term 'end credits'.  From the cast section of the rules:

"For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits"."
Quote:
Did you not read the whole rules or why are you quoting parts of them out of context?

- If there are end credits, they have to be used for the cast section of the profile.
- If there is cast credited in the opening credits that is missing in the end credits, it can be added.
- Adding cast that is "credited elsewhere" is only allowed if there are no end credits.

I am sorry, but you are misunderstanding and/or misquoting the rules.  If the film has standard credits, as defined above, then and only then do the credits have to come only from the end credits.

If, however, the film does not have standard credits...meaning all credited actors involved are NOT listed at the end of the film, then the following applies.

If a film does not have standard credits, use the following rules:
  • If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
  • If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits.
  •If there are no credits, the film's official site may be used as a source, as long as the inclusion does not violate the site's published policy (if any).
  • If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

So, for this documentary, because these people are credited...they are identified, in print, on screen...and they are not listed in the end credit, this feature does not have standard credits.  Since it does not have standard credits, per the rules, those people are added to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
I see better with 'em on
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Wow, another vague rule with no ruling or explanation from Invelos? 
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
Wow, another vague rule with no ruling or explanation from Invelos? 

In what way is this rule vague?  It defines "standard credits", tells us exactly what to do when we have them and exactlywhat to do when we don't. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
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