Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Seinfeld, Friends etc. on HD
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbentyman
Registered: April 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 651
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I see here in Norway the listed shows are shown in HD (16:9) also there are blu-ray versions available too. Are these shows recorded in HD or is it just reformatted to fit a 16:9 screen? The DVD versions I got from those shows are in 4:3
"What's God?"
"You know when you want something really bad and you wish for it?, God's the guy that ignores you"
-The Island, Steve Buscemi
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
A lot of these shows will start out 4:3 and later in the series go to the widescreen. So the actual answer is both.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbentyman
Registered: April 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 651
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Maybe I didn't explain it correctly. Friends are shown in 4:3 in all 10 seasons, but in the later years they are shown as HD and Full 16:9. So are the shows recorded all in 4:3 or 16:9 originally? and formatted to 4:3 in the 90's and reshown in full 16:9 in 2014?
"What's God?"
"You know when you want something really bad and you wish for it?, God's the guy that ignores you"
-The Island, Steve Buscemi
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Shows such as Seinfeld, Friends were shot and broadcast at 4x3.
The 16x9 re-runs/discs are reformated (cropped) to "fit your screen".
4x3 is the way they were meant to be seen.
Cropping an original 4x3 image  to fit a widescreen TV is as bad as the old pan/scan of widescreen movies to fit a 4x3 TV.
The whole business should be outlawed (IMO).
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
No... I seen many first run airing in widescreen (when they originally aired on TV). It switched over to widescreen (original airing) sometime about half way through the series.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Friends & Seinfeld were shot on 35 mm film. They have gone back and remastered to HD (possible with 35mm film elements), but the result is a crop of the original image.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
No... I seen many first run airing in widescreen (when they originally aired on TV). It switched over to widescreen (original airing) sometime about half way through the series.


Maybe with later seasons of Friends, but I think most, if not all of Seinfeld was originally broadcast 4x3, as Seinfeld was always shot in 4-perf Academy 35mm negative (4x3).

Friends, was shot in 3-perf Super 35mm. With Super 35 (a production only format) any aspect ratio can be achieved. The problem in remastering shows from that era is, often the camera operators shoot off sets or show details that shouldn't be in the frame, since they were optimizing the frame for regular 1.33 TV (4x3). When that happens, they usually blow up the image to fix that one shot, and then go back to normal once the camera operator frames the shot correctly.  For a lot of these shows, there's a lot of extra area on the left and right, since the framing was always intended to keep all the important information in the center 4x3 area.

Super 35 3-perf shows won't be nearly as much of a visual compromise when and if they get remastered for 16x9. But everything made prior to the mid 1990s will have to be reframed, unless they opt to just pillarbox it and have the 4x3 in the center. Some studios resist this for television shows, and are demanding some kind of tilt & scan in order to blow up 4x3 shows for 16x9.

Edit :

Here's a found image that illustrates the point: the original 4x3 image as framed by the DP and originally broadcast, and the reformatted for HD 16x9 image....a bit more on the sides, a lot less top/bottom. The composition/framing is no longer the DoPs but that of some lab tech.

 Last edited: by JMGuer
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,744
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
You can see examples of that on Buffy.

From season 4 on the show can be purchased as 16:9 but it reveals thing that weren't mean to be revealed (yet).

For example in the episode Hush Finley got into the elevator even though he could not speak. His boss successfully pointed that out once he was off the elevator. The shot was composed in a way that you weren't supposed to see the "in case of emergency use stairs" at first but only after the boss pointed it out (because the camera made a deliberate move to get it into the 4:3 zone). In the widescreen edition the sign is visible at all times.

Also when Spike boinks Buffy you can now see James Marsters wear a flesh-coloured slip, something which was outside of the 4:3 screen.

Also it can compromise the integrity of some shots. For example, the filmer composes a shot with one or two of the characters in the center of the screen and other people are right beside them. In 4:3 these other people aren't visible at all but get a focus shot when their time has come. With a picture now shown in 16:9 it can happen that you see parts of the shoulder and the neck or even the face of the person and it just looks odd.
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,744
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Here is on of the shots I was talking about:

Above the 16:9 UK version.

Below the original 4:3 format from the US version.

Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,744
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
In regards to Friends: As far as I know the Blu-ray also comes only with the shortened Syndication version (at least in Europe). Can anyone confirm this?
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
I see better with 'em on
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Canada Posts: 1,272
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
In regards to Friends: As far as I know the Blu-ray also comes only with the shortened Syndication version (at least in Europe). Can anyone confirm this?


I have the US version, and am rewatching them all with my daughter.  We are in Season 4, and they appear as far as I know to be the broadcast versions.  It looks good in the 16x9 format, I haven't noticed any awkward framing issues that would make me think it should have been 4x3.  I snagged it for $80 just before Christmas.

From the thread at blu-ray.com, from the press release announcing the release:

Quote:
BURBANK, CA (June 19, 2012) – Just in time for holiday gift giving, Warner Home Video will release for the first time ever Friends: The Complete Series Blu-ray on November 13, 2012. This ultimate collector’s set for the ultimate fan features over 110 hours of content – including all 236 original broadcast episodes released for the first time in the US, plus 20 hours of special features including over three hours of newly-added special features. New content includes a retrospective documentary with new interviews looking back at the influential 10 years of the series, never-before-released cast appearances, unaired footage, a new gag reel and more! All 10 seasons have been completely remastered in stunning 1080p high definition video with a 16×9 widescreen format and 5.1 audio. The Friends: Complete Series Blu-ray box set is presented in highly collectible new packaging consisting of a lenticular box cover, a hard-cover book that holds 21 Blu-ray discs, plus a 32-page episode guide. Friends: The Complete Series Blu-ray is priced to own at $279.98 SRP.
HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U  AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors  Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free)  HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server
 Last edited: by DoubleDownAgain
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
I see better with 'em on
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Canada Posts: 1,272
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Also after going through the thread it appears the UK set is the same, so it should contain the original broadcast versions.
HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U  AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors  Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free)  HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,744
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I'm referring to this issue and since I only know Friends from DVD (never watched it on German TV) I'm probably going to notice the missing pieces of the "extended versions".

I'm probably going to stick with my US DVD release. I have two complete sets already anyway.
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
I see better with 'em on
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Canada Posts: 1,272
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
I'm referring to this issue and since I only know Friends from DVD (never watched it on German TV) I'm probably going to notice the missing pieces of the "extended versions".

I'm probably going to stick with my US DVD release. I have two complete sets already anyway.



Ahh, I see what you mean.  FWIW it does sound liek the episodes are in fact the original broadcast and not the syndication versions.  The 'extended editions' were made for DVD, and sounds like not done with the originally negatives.  Not a big deal to me as I didn't own the DVD and am unfamiliar with the changes, but Yes, I would have liked to have them as well.
HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U  AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors  Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free)  HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwidescreenforever
Under A Double DoubleW
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Canada Posts: 5,494
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
in spirit of this topic .. I'll offer what I am familiar with in my DVD collection is the 9 seasons of Everybody Loves Raymond .. season 1 1996  to season 4 is all 4:3 .., but starting with Season 5 to 9 (2001) my set then is 16 x 9 ..  ..
..Noticing that my FOX HD TV station out of New York broadcasts this situation comedy series on a nightly routine running thru every episode from season 1- 9  in approx sequence .. 

Well Imagine my surprise to see my favorite episodes from the first odd 80 episodes in full HD and I didn't have the feeling of seeing tis  being 'blown up' to fit the widescreen .. So I checked into this and found that for these TV episodes they were all upgraded to HiDef ..,  but there are no plans to replace the existing standard dvd set ..  but will use this saved  format for any new release of bluray  of which there is none at this time ..
In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.

Terry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Yeah, Everybody Loves Raymond was another show shot in 3-perf Super 35, so the visual compromise in remastering for 16x9 isn't as great as in the case of Seinfeld.

Also, not all 16x9 widescreen TV was HD. In the early 2000s FOX TV used to broadcast in non-HD 16x9 widescreen.
    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next