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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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CLT vs IMDB, sample size of ONE ... |
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Registered: May 30, 2008 | Posts: 445 |
| Posted: | | | | My Region 1 UPC for "Circumstance" is 883929316038, but there is another profile for Region 2 (5051895194850).
An actor named "Amir Soleimani" is presented in the end credits with his role. IMDB says this is a "credit as" and that his real name is "Amir Hossein Soleimani".
IMDB has exactly one credit for this actor in its database.
How am I supposed to know they got it right?
Aren't I supposed to focus on the credits and ignore information from IMDB?
This is one of a couple of indicators that some info may have been borrowed from IMDB for our database.
When you have either no credits or just one previous credit of unknown provenance for an actor what are we supposed to do? I don't have the time to do original research for cast or crew members of every independent film in an attempt to figure out what it should have been compared to what's actually in the credits on the disc. |
| Registered: September 30, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,805 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote: Aren't I supposed to focus on the credits and ignore information from IMDB? Yes. The system currently has a CLT count of 0 for Amir Soleimani and 1 for Amir Hossein Soleimani. If that 1 profile is incorrect, and the credit is actually Amir Soleimani, then that's how you enter it and ignore the info from IMDB. This wouldn't be the first and it won't be the last time that IMDB uses what essentially amounts to a fictitious name for an actor, so enter what's in the credits and that's that. They're going to use what they're going to use and we use what we use. Looking at the CLT results for the Amir Hossein Soleimani, it's an obvious IMDB clone as the credited as name of Amir Soleimani appears in brackets in the character name field rather than how it's supposed to be entered. And really, you don't have to do a bunch of original research for cast and crew members of every independent film. Just use the credits and the CLT system. | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| Registered: May 30, 2008 | Posts: 445 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote: And really, you don't have to do a bunch of original research for cast and crew members of every independent film. Just use the credits and the CLT system. Thanks. I think I'd like to enter what's actually in the credits, unless I have reason to suspect otherwise. Doing a CLT lookup for every single name would be absurdly time consuming. |
| Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,131 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote: Quoting Merrik:
Quote: And really, you don't have to do a bunch of original research for cast and crew members of every independent film. Just use the credits and the CLT system. Thanks. I think I'd like to enter what's actually in the credits, unless I have reason to suspect otherwise.
Doing a CLT lookup for every single name would be absurdly time consuming. If everyone would enter the actual screen credits, the CLT would straighten itself out. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote: Thanks. I think I'd like to enter what's actually in the credits, unless I have reason to suspect otherwise.
Doing a CLT lookup for every single name would be absurdly time consuming. You are, of course, free to do exactly that. Nobody is required to use the CLT for every credit. As you note, that would be an absurd requirement, | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,851 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote: This is one of a couple of indicators that some info may have been borrowed from IMDB for our database. The online database is riddled with so much IMDB data that it will never be removed. That the rules allow us to copy data from previously approved profiles practically guarantees this. --------------- |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | And yet some people complain that our database is useless because it doesn't contain enough IMDb data. | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| Registered: September 30, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,805 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote: Quoting Merrik:
Quote: And really, you don't have to do a bunch of original research for cast and crew members of every independent film. Just use the credits and the CLT system. Thanks. I think I'd like to enter what's actually in the credits, unless I have reason to suspect otherwise.
Doing a CLT lookup for every single name would be absurdly time consuming. That's what I meant. For a situation like the one you've detailed, you'd use the CLT. For an actor like... Natalie Portman, no need. I use the CLT when double checking with outside sources (such as IMDB) and they have an alternate name listed or if I have two very similar names in my own database (Greg Nicotero/Gregory Nicotero) to find the common name. If we were asked to use the CLT for every single actor/crew member we enter, I would've stopped contributing years ago. | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| Registered: November 24, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,279 |
| Posted: | | | | I'm still finding (I), (II), (III) etc after actor names. I wonder where those came from ... Just the other day I downloaded a new profile and found three more. | | | Last edited: by GreyHulk |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting iPatsa: Quote: And yet some people complain that our database is useless because it doesn't contain enough IMDb data. The problem of our database is not about IMDb names. It is about names that exist nowhere, even in credits, and are generated by rules when changing all caps to lower case without any respect of the spelling. There are thousand of names with variants (that do not exist in real world, nor in credits), that make our database useless. On the contrary, I have no example of an actor being present in IMDb with four different variants (one correct, and three with spelling mistakes) without any linking between those variants. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,744 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting GreyHulk: Quote: I'm still finding (I), (II), (III) etc after actor names. I wonder where those came from ...
Just the other day I downloaded a new profile and found three more. Yeah, I wonder that, too. Because while IMDb does use the roman numerals to show that actor John Smith is not actor John Smith, it is never done so in the actual credit list of any movie. So it's not liek someone simply copy&pasted an IMDb list into DVDP. | | | Karsten DVD Collectors Online
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,934 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting iPatsa:
Quote: And yet some people complain that our database is useless because it doesn't contain enough IMDb data. The problem of our database is not about IMDb names. It is about names that exist nowhere, even in credits, and are generated by rules when changing all caps to lower case without any respect of the spelling. There are thousand of names with variants (that do not exist in real world, nor in credits), that make our database useless. On the contrary, I have no example of an actor being present in IMDb with four different variants (one correct, and three with spelling mistakes) without any linking between those variants. While this may be true for you, apparently it is not true for everybody. I have gone through my credits, and most of the names that you have brought up in the past, do not exist in my db. While I may not have a super extreme large DB, I do have about 2000 titles. This should give me a fair cross reference of mainly US titles.. The big problem that I have, is that there are credits in our DB, that seem to mirror IMDB credits and have no actual to the credits themselves. Things like IMDB credits as John J. Smith. Profile Says John J. Smith, but in actuality the movie credit says John Smith. I go through and make these corrections all the time. I have learned not to trust IMDB for many things. I recently submitted correction for 10 people in one movie. and have found instances of splitting credits between 2 different names, when they are in fact the same person. IMDB is riddled with mistakes errors and omissions, for the same reason our DB has problems. It is a "HUMAN" problem. If the issue as you describe were the only issue there was with our DB, I would be extremely happy, but in my opinion, there are bigger fish to fry. |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote: This should give me a fair cross reference of mainly US titles. Dvdprofiler was designed as a database for all movies, not only US ones, and rules should allow to treat them correctly, I mean respecting the specificities of their country of origin. I have many US movies (63% of my collection), and admit the rules allow to enter them correctly except a few cases. But for the others, European (except UK) and Asian movies, the database is a nightmare. Quite every accented name has 2 or 4 variants, each Asian name has at least two variants (except the actress Li Li who has no reversed variant ). That means thousands of non linking names . I can understand that people who have mainly US movies don't care about other users, and are vocal in the forums to keep specifically US rules. But I don't understand Ken, whose product would have a better success with foreign users if non-US actors were treated decently. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: September 29, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,550 |
| Posted: | | | | Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't IMDB a user-contributed database as well? I'd say, then, that their problem is the same as ours: garbage in, garbage out.
As to surfeur51's point: I have many movies & TV shows where the names in the disc credits are in all caps AND are accented (the CSI franchise comes to mind). I blame whoever (whomever?) puts the credits of the movie/TV show on the discs. Some use the accents, some don't. I don't know if the actors request accents if their name in their home country has one or not, but you can't blame the Profiler users for not putting in accents where none exist. If I see an accent in the name I enter if that way. If I don't see an accent, I don't enter it. | | | My one wish for the DVD Profiler online database: Ban or remove the disc-level profiles of TV season sets. It completely screws up/inflates the CLT. FACT: Imdb is WRONG 70% of the time! Misspelled cast, incomplete cast, wrong cast/crew roles. So for those who want DVD Profiler to be "as perfect as Imdb", good luck with that. Stop adding UNIT crew! They're invalid credits. Stop it! |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting huskersports: Quote: ... but you can't blame the Profiler users for not putting in accents where none exist. If I see an accent in the name I enter if that way. If I don't see an accent, I don't enter it. I perfectly understand that a user not familiar with a specific language has no possibility to use accents correctly. As for me , I know what to do in French, but not in Spanish or Swedish... The problem is that rules forbid to correct mistakes, even when a user knows perfectly what to do. And this is, in my opinion, totally unacceptable. All errors are human, but to forbid to correct them is just stupidity. When a Spanish actor is uncorrectly spelled by a French user, a Spanish user should be allowed to correct it. I'm ready to give the correct accentuation for more than 1300 French actors, and more than 2000 corresponding variants could be cleaned from CLT without extra work, as we can see in the common names threads that never end... Note that 99% of French actors are correctly spelled in IMDb, a user-contributed database, so what I propose is possible to achieve... | | | Images from movies | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting huskersports: Quote: If I don't see an accent, I don't enter it. This is how I believe it should be, you type in exactly what you see. I do wish invelos would fix the linking problem but after years of hoping I've given up on that ever happening. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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