Hi,

I got a question about the 'Visual Effects'-credits.

In 'The Dark Knight Rises' there is a group for 'Visual Effects by New Deal Studios' with 18 people under, but there is no specification of Designer, Supervisor, Director or something else.
They are all entered directly under the group as follow:
Visual Effects by NEW DEAL STUDIOS, INC
IAN HUNTER                    DAVID SANGER          TIMOTHY E. ANGULO
RICHARD O. HELMER        JOHN CAZIN              SCOTT BEVERLY
...
...
...

Are these people valid credits for this movie or not?

Grts, Mitch.

I generally don't enter these, simply because the credits don't tell me what they've done, exactly. Heck, for all I know, that list may include the person who cleans the offices at New Deal Studios - we just don't know. Also, when researching some of those people, I repeatedly found that they're virtually never credited as one of the visual effects job that we track. Virtually none of these people have ever been credited as a special/visual/digital effects supervisor/designer/director. And if they're not doing a job that we track, I don't see why I should include them.

The thing is: in other films, the visual effects crew is split out in a "visual effects supervisor" followed by loads of people that we don't track. Think "digital artists", "rotoscopers", "visual effects producers", "visual effects art directors", "matte supervisors" and so on. And that's exactly what these people are. Again: just research the other jobs of some of these people, and you'll find those are almost exclusively the kind of jobs that they do - jobs that we don't track in DVD Profiler. It's just that nobody bothered to mention their detailed job description in this particular film. That's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean they've suddenly done a job that we do track...

Of course, since the rules have to allow for the occasional lone "visual effects by John Doe" credit in what we like to call "older films", these groups can technically be entered - I'm sure many people will point that out. But again: as most of these people have never ever performed a job that we track in DVD Profiler, and aren't performing one here either, I sure won't be doing that.

Ok. Thanks guys!
I'm not adding them.

I sure do wish we could get a ruling from Ken on this one. What say you Ken Ken Ken Ken?...Oh well it was worth a try.

Quoting iPatsa:

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Quoting mitchg:

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there is no specification of Designer, Supervisor, Director or something else.

If these are the only VFX credits I would add them. But I'm guessing there are already people with the above titles credited elsewhere.

I see that the rules have put "Individual Credits:" in bold which seems to imply that an unspecified group credit like this is not enough to enter them.

There are other VFX credits for 'The Dark Knight Rises'.
I asked because I saw that Ian Hunter was credited in that group and in 'The Dark Knight' he is credited as Visual Effects Supervisor.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Here is the bottom line, the rules allow these people to be entered.  You are not required to enter them, but you can.

I am trying to figure this out. 

It would be one thing if it said

Visual Effects

Name 1
name 2
name 3...

I could understand the loose association within the rules that allow this to be accepted...

Though, when they are listed under a company divider

Visual Effects by ABC,

then they must meet other requirements.  How do they meet the other requirements, with no job assigned?

Charlie

Quoting scotthm:

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Quoting CharlieM:

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How do they meet the other requirements, with no job assigned?

They do not.  We know who these people work for, but not what they did.

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I agree, we know who they work for, but not what they did. 

Think of it, if the end credits at the end of a film just said 'Crew" and a list of names.  Those you would not be able to credit not knowing their roles.  It should be the same with a company divider.

Quoting ateo357:

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where in the rules does it state that they have to meet additional requirements if they are in a group header.

Near the bottom of the Credits portion of the rules:

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Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements.

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the way I see it as the rules are now, they all get credited. No opinions in this thread or the other 2 active threads will change that.

If you're not open to learning why do you ask questions?

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