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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 550 |
| | Posted: | | | | I hope this topic doesnt get ugly, but I want to hear opinions.
There are a few color spaces out there to use such as CMYK, sRGB, Adobe RGB, Pantone (Skip's favorite I am guessing), and many others. Each has advantages and disadvantages. There will also always be debate over if a picture is over saturated, under saturated, not sharp enough. But do you think that submissions should be restricted at a certain color space(s)? | | | Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 793 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's not going to make that much difference unless our systems are calibrated to that colour space, so I'm not sure I would support a move to make it a requirement.
If it was a requirement though, I would vote for sRGB. It's the Windows default and the default for the Web. Not sure why someone would vote for any other standard given the context to be honest, so will read the ensuing discussion with interest. | | | | Last edited: by Squirrelecto |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 550 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Squirrel.God: Quote:
It's not going to make that much difference unless our systems are calibrated to that colour space, so I'm not sure I would support a move to make it a requirement. sRBG I believe is a standard for Windows. Adobe RGB is used by a lot of photographers (unless you are my GF who hates it). CMYK I belive is more for printing things like posters. Pantone is a new for me and first came across it when Skip submitted cover images. But from my understanding is only used by Pantone products because it is not open source. This may be a reason in the old forums some mentioned Skip's images not look right to them. | | | Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | I honestly don't understand the question, so I voted Don't Care. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | 95% of people are using Windows, so this is really a moot point.
That isn't going to make it any easier, though, because people all see the pictures differently. No two pair of eyeballs is the same, just like every monitor is different, etc.
It is virtually impossible to get everybody close enough to not have to allow for the subjective. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
I honestly don't understand the question, so I voted Don't Care. I wonder if most people would say that same.  CMYK and RBG are color palettes. When you're in Photoshop, you can select to switch between the two. Pantone is proprietary and historically a colors system for printing. CMYK is for printing too. It tries to simulate on screen what you'll see when the image is printed. RGB is what you'll find most JPEGs coded as. I just checked a few of the images that come from the database that Skip uploaded with his "Pantone color standard" clause and they all check out as RGB in Photoshop. I don't know if Skip converts them to RGB before he contributes (a question for Skip) or whether Invelos stores all images as RGB regardless (a question for Invelos). I'm sure Vibrocount or others can fill in the details better than I have.  schultzy, have you seen any images come from the main database in anything other than RGB? Or have you contributed anything in a format other than RGB? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 550 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
I honestly don't understand the question, so I voted Don't Care.
I wonder if most people would say that same.
CMYK and RBG are color palettes. When you're in Photoshop, you can select to switch between the two. Pantone is proprietary and historically a colors system for printing. CMYK is for printing too. It tries to simulate on screen what you'll see when the image is printed. RGB is what you'll find most JPEGs coded as.
I just checked a few of the images that come from the database that Skip uploaded with his "Pantone color standard" clause and they all check out as RGB in Photoshop.
I don't know if Skip converts them to RGB before he contributes (a question for Skip) or whether Invelos stores all images as RGB regardless (a question for Invelos).
I'm sure Vibrocount or others can fill in the details better than I have.
schultzy, have you seen any images come from the main database in anything other than RGB? Or have you contributed anything in a format other than RGB? I had been using Adobe RGB, but went to sRGB after I rebuilt my PC. I have submitted as both. I was just curious as to what others thought. Not to pick on Skip or anything, but he notes in his image contributions he uses pantone and to me a number of his submissions look saturated in red when viewed on different PCs. I know that what you see depends on video card, monitor, calibration, and your eyes. But just wondering what others use (which I am sure is RGB or sRGB), if people thought maybe we should just use one or two, or people cared at all. | | | Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
... because people all see the pictures differently. No two pair of eyeballs is the same, just like every monitor is different, etc. I've never understood this argument. When I compare images, I don't use two different sets of eyeballs and I don't use two different monitors. I pull up the contribution which shows the old image side by side with the new image on the same screen.Then I pull out the DVD in question, and hold the cover art up next to each of the two images on the screen. I use the same set of eyeballs to perform this compartive function for each image on the screen. I then decide which of the two images on the screen more closely matches the actual cover art, based on what my one set of eyeballs sees on my one monitor. So how many of you out there use multiple monitors and multiple sets of eyeballs to judge cover images? Maybe we should start a poll on this? | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
So how many of you out there use multiple monitors and multiple sets of eyeballs to judge cover images?
Kirkarian maybe  | | | | Lutz |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 940 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
So how many of you out there use multiple monitors and multiple sets of eyeballs to judge cover images? Existing image - left eye; new image - right eye; cover in hand - third eye | | | | Kevin |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting antolod: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
So how many of you out there use multiple monitors and multiple sets of eyeballs to judge cover images?
Existing image - left eye; new image - right eye; cover in hand - third eye But I heard the third eye was blind?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
... because people all see the pictures differently. No two pair of eyeballs is the same, just like every monitor is different, etc.
I've never understood this argument.
When I compare images, I don't use two different sets of eyeballs and I don't use two different monitors.
I pull up the contribution which shows the old image side by side with the new image on the same screen.
Then I pull out the DVD in question, and hold the cover art up next to each of the two images on the screen. I use the same set of eyeballs to perform this compartive function for each image on the screen.
I then decide which of the two images on the screen more closely matches the actual cover art, based on what my one set of eyeballs sees on my one monitor.
So how many of you out there use multiple monitors and multiple sets of eyeballs to judge cover images?
Maybe we should start a poll on this? Your technique would only be valid if you had calibrated your monitor to match your actual DVD case with whatever color space you use beforehand. | | | | My Home Theater |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 129 |
| | Posted: | | | | Technically JPEG is treated as sRGB though many [professional] image handling programs can tag it with other colour spaces. Most monitors, calibrated or not, have a gamut [the actual colours reproduced] that is very close to sRGB; some newer ones are close to AdobeRGB, which is wider in most areas but lacks in compared to sRGB in one. A sawer's handful of pro monitors cover wide gamut spaces.
That all does not matter when the images are viewed in a non-colour-managed environment, which includes all Web browsers save Safari, or low level image viewers like IrfanView. While most images with AdobeRGB defined will not change their colours drastically in these cases - the colours are close enough to sRGB - pictures with a wide gamut attached/tagged will suffer greatly.
Conclusion: With JPEG - which is used in DVDP - sRGB is the most sensible colour space for submission. Only if you know what you are doing and you go in to do major [colour] edits after scanning should you use TIFF, 16 bit and a wide gamut space from AdobeRGB upwards. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think if you start requiring a specific 'colour space' quite a lot of people, even those who contribute regularly (like myself) will not bother as we have no idea what you're talking about. hal9g says: Quote:
When I compare images, I don't use two different sets of eyeballs and I don't use two different monitors. That isn't the point... the point is you could have two different people view the image on your monitor and they could easily disagree over which was (subjectively) better. Similarly you could view your images on one monitor and descide image A is better but if you then were looking on someone else's PC image A could look worse... fine for you (if you are going to use one moitor for the rest of your life) but what if your monitor is differently set up to the vast majority out there and you are Voting Yes for an image that may look worse on most people's systems. | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | As long as the resolution is high, they're a nice size, clean and nicely cropped then I don't really worry if the hues are slightly different.
If I want to see it 100% accurate then I'll pull it off the shelf. | | | | Guns don't kill people. Hammers do. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
... because people all see the pictures differently. No two pair of eyeballs is the same, just like every monitor is different, etc.
I've never understood this argument.
When I compare images, I don't use two different sets of eyeballs and I don't use two different monitors.
That's not true.
If I am comparing both images to the original cover on the same monitor, what difference does it make how the monitor is calibrated. Both images will be "off" in the same way if it is not properly calibrated, so which ever one matches more closely is still gonna be the better choice!
I pull up the contribution which shows the old image side by side with the new image on the same screen.
Then I pull out the DVD in question, and hold the cover art up next to each of the two images on the screen. I use the same set of eyeballs to perform this compartive function for each image on the screen.
I then decide which of the two images on the screen more closely matches the actual cover art, based on what my one set of eyeballs sees on my one monitor.
So how many of you out there use multiple monitors and multiple sets of eyeballs to judge cover images?
Maybe we should start a poll on this?
Your technique would only be valid if you had calibrated your monitor to match your actual DVD case with whatever color space you use beforehand. | | | | Hal |
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