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| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | I speak no Chinese at all, so some guidance here is appreciated. Right now, we have the option of entering Cantonese or Mandarin spoken languages, but only Chinese written. My understanding is this is because the various forms of spoken Chinese are very different and generally considered separate languages, but it is written with a glyph system and all are written more or less the same. Cantonese does seem to have some of its of characters though and a variant way of writing. When you see subtitles labelled as Chinese, this typically means the way it is written in Mandarin and most other forms. When we enter Cantonese in DVD Profiler, should we enter it as Chinese or other? This article may be helpful. | | | | Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens |
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| Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | My thoughts: we enter Quebec French and European French both as "French." I've compared Mandarin and Cantonese subtitles and they are generally fairly similar. While it may be nice to distinguish forms, written Cantonese is a form of written Chinese and entering it as "Chinese" is much more useful than "other." |
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| Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Personally, I would enter all as 'Chinese'. It's far from ideal but I think with the given tools at hand, it's the best solution. Both Mandarin and Cantonese can be considered a 'subsidiary' to the global term Chinese, I would think.
A better solution, I think, would be if we could choose between Chinese (Mandarin) and Chinese (Cantonese). Unfortunately, these choices aren't available currently.
If you'll allow me a small personal rant: this is yet another example of how poorly DVDProfiler handles Asian cinema profiles. There is an urgent need to seriously consider these issues and incorporate solutions in the rules as well as the program. | | | Blu-ray collection
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 113 |
| | Posted: | | | | The two differing types of Chinese characters used in subtitles are called "Traditional" and "Simplified" not Mandarin & Cantonese so a new subtitle option would need to be called Chinese (Traditional) and Chinese (Simplified). Speakers of both languages are able to read either set of characters to some extent.
Simplified characters are most popular in mainland China, Singapore and Malaysia and Traditional characters predominate in Hong Kong & Taiwan. |
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| Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is no different written form of Cantonese and Mandarin.
You have Chinese Simplified and Chinese traditional. Some parts of China speak Cantonese but use simplified others like Hong Kong speak Cantonese and use traditional. Equally other parts of China speak Mandarin but, depending on the region, use simplified (most) and some (notably Taiwan) traditional.
For some purposes everywhere you may see traditional. Most educated people these days can read both it's only really in the sticks that this would be an issue and to confuse matters they may well not speak very good cantonese or mandarin as there are thousands of dialects which differ far more than say Spanish and Portuguese but they all have the same written forms except as I said using either traditional or simplified characters.
It hels if you remember at it's core it's a pictorial written language. Draw a picture of a tree and everyone will know it's a tree but depending on what language you speak everyone will sound completely different. | | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
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| Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | See the linked article. Written Cantonese does differ from written Mandarin, though apparently not very much. There are a number of DVDs that offer separate Mandarin and Cantonese subtitles. Either can be wrtten with traditional or simplified characters. | | | | Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 113 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
There are a number of DVDs that offer separate Mandarin and Cantonese subtitles. Either can be wrtten with traditional or simplified characters. That's interesting - I have a large number of R3 Hong Kong locality DVD's and I've never seen that as a subtitle option. What's the locality of these? |
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| Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | The profile that started the question was a region 1 copy of New Police Story, which is labeled as having Cantonese. I was going to get some screen captures from the Daredevil BD, which has both, but my computer doesn't seem to let me take screenshots of Blu-ray. | | | | Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 113 |
| | Posted: | | | | OK - I assumed you were referring to an Asian locality DVD. |
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| Registered: April 7, 2007 | | Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Written Cantonese does differ from written Mandarin, though apparently not very much. There are a number of DVDs that offer separate Mandarin and Cantonese subtitles. Either can be wrtten with traditional or simplified characters. I have read the article and can't really find any reference which indicates they have different written forms other than some regional variations which are not language specific and not a standard. It's definitely not the case. I also have a lot of Chinese disks Hong Kong and mainland most of which are not on DVD profiler but I haven't seen any with any Cantonese or Mandarin Subs. Obviously written in Chinese which Invelos won't support for some reason they are always listed as simplified and traditional. If a western disk has Cantonese and Mandarin it's going to be a wrong assumption that Cantonese is traditional and Mandarin is simplified. I do have New Police Story amongst them and it's subs are traditional and simplified on the original Hong Kong disk. Although I can read both, speak OK Mandarin and a little Cantonese for a source I cite my wife  Examiner for the UK national register of interpreters and translators in Chinese and Cantonese. An interpreter and translator for the 2 languages for 15 years, lecturer in Chinese translation and interpreting for post graduate studies at the university of Surrey and co-editor of Langensheidt's Chinese dictionary. | | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Graveworm: Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Written Cantonese does differ from written Mandarin, though apparently not very much. There are a number of DVDs that offer separate Mandarin and Cantonese subtitles. Either can be wrtten with traditional or simplified characters.
I have read the article and can't really find any reference which indicates they have different written forms other than some regional variations which are not language specific and not a standard. It's definitely not the case.
I also have a lot of Chinese disks Hong Kong and mainland most of which are not on DVD profiler but I haven't seen any with any Cantonese or Mandarin Subs. Obviously written in Chinese which Invelos won't support for some reason they are always listed as simplified and traditional. If a western disk has Cantonese and Mandarin it's going to be a wrong assumption that Cantonese is traditional and Mandarin is simplified. I do have New Police Story amongst them and it's subs are traditional and simplified on the original Hong Kong disk.
Although I can read both, speak OK Mandarin and a little Cantonese for a source I cite my wife Examiner for the UK national register of interpreters and translators in Chinese and Cantonese. An interpreter and translator for the 2 languages for 15 years, lecturer in Chinese translation and interpreting for post graduate studies at the university of Surrey and co-editor of Langensheidt's Chinese dictionary. You and your wife are over-qualified and should desist from commenting here. We prefer people who shoot from the hip with no valid basis for their opinion. Please accept my sincerest sympathies that you have landed here. From now on you will be required to vote nuetral on any Chinese/Cantonese contributions | | | | Last edited: by Telecine |
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| Registered: May 8, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | I enter them all as Chinese  cheers Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
The profile that started the question was a region 1 copy of New Police Story, which is labeled as having Cantonese. I was going to get some screen captures from the Daredevil BD, which has both, but my computer doesn't seem to let me take screenshots of Blu-ray. I think that's a mistake on Fox's (or other publishers) part listing subtitles like that. 2 Chinese subtitle options should be Simplified and Traditional. | | | | My Home Theater |
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| Registered: June 5, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 93 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
The profile that started the question was a region 1 copy of New Police Story, which is labeled as having Cantonese. I was going to get some screen captures from the Daredevil BD, which has both, but my computer doesn't seem to let me take screenshots of Blu-ray. Blu-ray's are heavily copy-protected (using HDCP amongst other things) and enforce a "no screenshot" policy  However, using programs such as AnyDVDHD and a suitable player (VideoLAN, etc.) you can open the raw video files and snap away  Or just photograph the screen | | | | You can download higher resolution versions of any of my cover scans from here |
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