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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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Forum Moderation Trial |
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| Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | We've read and listened to all the feedback on the forum moderation trial and I believe we've come to a decision point. Although moderation is far from perfect, I do believe we're improving regularly. However, we need to take another holistic view and determine whether or not to bring back the reputation feedback enforcements.
It boils down to two basic choices:
A) Continue with stronger moderation.
B) Restrict moderation to truly egregious violations and bring back the reputation feedback enforcements. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | I voted for continue with stronger moderation, because there is a learning curve that you are going through right now and while it sucks that some posts/threads get deleted/moved in entirety, thus mussing up the flow of a conversation, I'm hoping it can only get better. There's nothing wrong with giving a mod warning without having to delete the post. TBH, I've never seen a forum that does it that way. Usually a mod quotes the post (or posts immediately after the post in question) with a warning. (The reason I mention that is it could alleviate the frustration when entire posts and threads disappear, making the following posts out of context or a little wacky).
But I stand by my previous statements that if you (general you) only plan on deleting/editing posts/threads without any form of punishment, you might as well scrap the entire program. Warnings without repercussions mean nothing. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | I could not choose. The problem is not moderators versus reputation system. As long as some users will be allowed to violate forum rules with bannable offenses without any other measure taken against them than deleting their posts or sending them red arrows, nothing will get better. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | I went for keeping it as it currently is. Although I agree that action needs to be taken against users before things drastically improve, I do feel that the overall feel on the forum has improved since moderation came in. |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | It really isn't possible to permanently ban anyone from a free forum. In order to implement real bans, we would need to restrict posting access to paid users. That's something I have tried to avoid, but it may be necessary.
Note, however, that a pattern of red arrows does restrict a users postings temporarily. That happened many times under the old system. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Posts: 81 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
It really isn't possible to permanently ban anyone from a free forum. In order to implement real bans, we would need to restrict posting access to paid users. That's something I have tried to avoid, but it may be necessary.
Note, however, that a pattern of red arrows does restrict a users postings temporarily. That happened many times under the old system. I do not see a problem there, if someone has repeatingly broken the rules and has been abusive to other people, he/she brought that onto him/herself. Why "protect" people like that. As for the whole red arrow problem. You don't need it with a fair and open moderation system. There is no need for a system that can be influenced by the "mood" etc. of a forum user. About the poll itself. A poll with only two options doesn't have any value as far as i am concerned. Especially when these options do not describe what people have been saying in regard to forum moderation. | | |
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: 'WOW What a Ride!!! |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gendji: Quote:
I do not see a problem there, if someone has repeatingly broken the rules and has been abusive to other people, he/she brought that onto him/herself. Why "protect" people like that. No, the point is that it is impossible to ban someone from a free forum - they can just create another account. Another hundred if they like. Hence the alternative to require a paid registration to post. Quote:
About the poll itself. A poll with only two options doesn't have any value as far as i am concerned.
Especially when these options do not describe what people have been saying in regard to forum moderation. This poll isn't about "is moderation perfect" - it only breaks the choice into two options because the question is whether to bring back the reputation feedback. For that question, there are only two possible options. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gendji: Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
It really isn't possible to permanently ban anyone from a free forum. In order to implement real bans, we would need to restrict posting access to paid users. That's something I have tried to avoid, but it may be necessary.
Note, however, that a pattern of red arrows does restrict a users postings temporarily. That happened many times under the old system.
I do not see a problem there, if someone has repeatingly broken the rules and has been abusive to other people, he/she brought that onto him/herself. Why "protect" people like that. I agree with Gendji. Another way to look at it is what about the majority of paid users who are forced to put up with the ignorance of a few? To put it another way, say you buy a house in a neighborhood that has a home owner's association, and there is one neighbor who is simply a clown. Yard is a wreck, junk cars in the driveway, loud music every night. Sure the person owns the house (the DVDProfiler Program), but that does not give him/her the right to make the lives of everyone who lives in the neighborhood miserable (the forums) to the point where people start leaving. So what happens? The home owners association (you, Gerri, the moderators I would assume) start punishing the home owner with fines (suspensions) until they get the point. I don't think being a paid member gives you the freedom to run unchecked in the forum. Because, if that's the case, I'm going to stop holding back.  | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Can you have a blend of A+B = "Strong moderation and bring back feedback enforcements"? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
No, the point is that it is impossible to ban someone from a free forum - they can just create another account. Another hundred if they like. Hence the alternative to require a paid registration to post. Aah, okay. So is it not possible to ban or suspend by IP address, then? | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would suggest that the reputation system be eliminated since it is too easily influenced by the bias of the user community. They have no responsibility to be objective. Moderators do.
However, I do not support stronger moderation, if it means the constant removal of posts and threads. I think the moderation to date has been overly heavy-handed.
I believe the moderators should only edit posts as absolutely necessary. This "editing" should be tracked in some way (similar to the reputation system) and "banning" periods should be tied to how many times a moderator has had to edit a person's posts.
I do not believe that "off topic" posts should be edited or deleted at all. A warning should be issued when people get off topic and again, this could be tracked for an automated banning (although bans for off topic posts should require it to be a habitual problem).
I'm not sure why permanent bans cannot be implemented, however, the "counter" should not start over once a person has "done their time" after being banned. They should be given a much lower level of tolerance going forward.
That's my two cents! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Aah, okay. So is it not possible to ban or suspend by IP address, then? Certainly. It's something we do regularly to put a stem in DOS attacks and cracking attempts. However, as we discovered early on with those, for most users it's all too easy to get a new IP. Additionally, an IP ban for a user behind a proxy is impossible. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
No, the point is that it is impossible to ban someone from a free forum - they can just create another account. Another hundred if they like. Hence the alternative to require a paid registration to post.
You could go half way with that. Have the existing forums as paid only areas but create a "Newcomers" section where those who are considering buying can ask questions. That would then filter all the "unbannable" people into one area. I've seen that done on a few forums over the years. Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
However, as we discovered early on with those, for most users it's all too easy to get a new IP. The other downside of IP banning is that you could potentially block a legitimate, friendly user. Especially so if they're on a dynamic IP. | | | | Last edited: by Ardos |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
No, the point is that it is impossible to ban someone from a free forum - they can just create another account. Another hundred if they like. Hence the alternative to require a paid registration to post. Since you require a "non-free" e-mail address to register, it is unlikely that people are going to be able to or inclined to creating 100 new Invelos accounts. If they use the same e-mail address you will catch them. Perhaps you could tighten up on registration requirements such as requiring the user to validate registration from an e-mail generated by you to their e-mail address. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Aah, okay. So is it not possible to ban or suspend by IP address, then?
Certainly. It's something we do regularly to put a stem in DOS attacks and cracking attempts. However, as we discovered early on with those, for most users it's all too easy to get a new IP.
Additionally, an IP ban for a user behind a proxy is impossible. That's very true, and in my experience as both an admin and mod, it is a pain when someone re-registers and re-registers to get around the system. But I've also found that they eventually get tired of creating new email addresses before I get tired of banning their user name/ip/email. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Since you require a "non-free" e-mail address to register Is that new? I registered with a free account. |
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