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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | With the approval of a contribution for Stargate Continuum which added Composer credits for Theme by and Additional Music, which I voted against, am I to assume this is the road we will travel now? | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 1,777 |
| Posted: | | | | Well, I'm not about to go tearing through old profiles looking for more. I will say that on the rare occasion I stumble across a credit like that it gives me pause. Obviously the person credited has contributed original music but it is not explicitly addressed in the rules. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | According to the Contribution Rules the Composer credit is reserved for the composer of the film's Original Score and I fail to see how Themes by or Additional Music qualify for such a credit. But I guess I'm wrong since the screeners apparantly feel they do . From the rules for Music Credit. Specifically Composer: Music by Music Composed by Score by Score Composed by Used for the composer of the film's Original Score | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote: I fail to see how Themes by or Additional Music qualify for such a credit. Me too. IMHO, using "composer" for this is absolutely out of the question, and the fact that one slipped by the screeners doesn't convince me of the opposite. This is all just because people don't understand how to use the "song writer" credit. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote: According to the Contribution Rules the Composer credit is reserved for the composer of the film's Original Score and I fail to see how Themes by or Additional Music qualify for such a credit. But I guess I'm wrong since the screeners apparantly feel they do .
From the rules for Music Credit. Specifically Composer:
Music by Music Composed by Score by Score Composed by
Used for the composer of the film's Original Score Totally agree. Unfortunately this credit has been abused by contributors for quite some time now, especially where it involves TV series. Voters are voting overwhelmingly in favor of these credits and the screeners are allowing them through. I think it's a shame that we continue to dilute the validity of credits by allowing these into the main database. The "Music By" credit has no real meaning anymore! IMHO. | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote: According to the Contribution Rules the Composer credit is reserved for the composer of the film's Original Score and I fail to see how Themes by or Additional Music qualify for such a credit. But I guess I'm wrong since the screeners apparantly feel they do .
From the rules for Music Credit. Specifically Composer:
Music by Music Composed by Score by Score Composed by
Used for the composer of the film's Original Score
Totally agree.
Unfortunately this credit has been abused by contributors for quite some time now, especially where it involves TV series. Voters are voting overwhelmingly in favor of these credits and the screeners are allowing them through.
I think it's a shame that we continue to dilute the validity of credits by allowing these into the main database. The "Music By" credit has no real meaning anymore! IMHO. Exactly my opinion. The thing is, Stargate Continuum, although based on the TV series, is a feature film not an episode of the series. The same rules that apply to film scores apply to this film. I'm all for adding "Theme by" somehow to the Music credits but to shoehorn these credits into the database in total disregard of the rules is beyond the pale . | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote: I'm all for adding "Theme by" somehow to the Music credits but to shoehorn these credits into the database in total disregard of the rules is beyond the pale . Per the rules, "theme by" gets a "song writer" credit. Here we go again: an instrumental piece of music (often called a "theme") is considered a "song" for DVD Profiler purposes, and as such, qualifies for a "song writer" credit. This is not "shoehorning" and not a personal preference - it's straight from Invelos' own contribution rules. All that we need can be found on the credits page of the contribution rules, under "Composer", more importantly, in the "incorrect" column: Two things are important to notice here: 1. The "composer" credit is to be "used for the composer of the film's Original Score." Nothing more, nothing less. The rules even name four possible credits ("Music by" et al) to identify these composers. 2. The "incorrect" column specifically says NOT to give "composer" credits to "Songs by Song/Music writers". This is where things get interesting. Let split that up, shall we? "Songs by Song writers" "Songs by Music writers" Surely we're all clear on what "songs by song writers" means, right? Original songs, written especially for the movie. These get "song writer" credits, obviously. But what can the rules possibly mean by "Songs by Music writers"? Both the score and any original songs are already covered. There's nothing else left, so "Songs by Music writers" can only refer to instrumental pieces of music ("themes"). So it's right there: the rules call instrumental pieces of music "songs". "Songs by Music writers", that it, but still: "songs". While the rules explicitly say "songs by music writers" do not qualify for a "composer" credit, in that same fell swoop the rules DO declare such instrumental themes as "song". That means that we CAN credit them as "song writers". I can not possibly think of any other interpretation of the term "songs by music writers". So, for once and for all: for DVD Profiler purposes, a "theme" is considered to be a "song", and as such qualifies for a "song writer" credit. This is the entire problem in a nutshell: there are still some people that don't understand how to use the "song writer" credit, and instead, they use "composer" for every single bit of music. All while there is this perfectly elegant solution, which lets us track every musical contributor in a way that neatly distinguishes between the actual composer of the score and other musical contributors. And hey: it's backed up by the rules as well. I fail to see why people have so much trouble applying this. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote: I'm all for adding "Theme by" somehow to the Music credits but to shoehorn these credits into the database in total disregard of the rules is beyond the pale . Per the rules, "theme by" gets a "song writer" credit. Here we go again: an instrumental piece of music (often called a "theme") is considered a "song" for DVD Profiler purposes, and as such, qualifies for a "song writer" credit. This is not a personal preference, nor is it based on anything else than Invelos' own contribution rules. All that we need can be found on this page of the contribution rules, under "Composer", more importantly, in the "incorrect" column:
Two things are important to notice here:
1. The "composer" credit is to be "used for the composer of the film's Original Score." Nothing more, nothing less. The rules even name four possible credits ("Music by" et al) to identify these composers.
2. The "incorrect" column specifically says NOT to give "composer" credits to "Songs by Song/Music writers". This is where things get interesting.
Let split that up, shall we?
"Songs by Song writers" "Songs by Music writers"
Surely we're all clear on what "songs by song writers" means, right? Original songs, written especially for the movie. These get "song writer" credits, obviously. But what can the rules possibly mean by "Songs by Music writers"? Both the score and any original songs are already covered. There's nothing else left, so "Songs by Music writers" can only refer to instrumental pieces of music ("themes"). So it's right there: the rules call instrumental pieces of music "songs". "Songs by Music writers", that it, but still: "songs". While the rules explicitly say "songs by music writers" do not qualify for a "composer" credit, in that same fell swoop the rules DO declare such instrumental themes as "song". That means that we CAN credit them as "song writers".
I can not possibly think of any other interpretation of the term "songs by music writers". So, for once and for all: for DVD Profiler purposes, a "theme" is considered to be a "song", and as such qualifies for a "song writer" credit.
This is the entire problem in a nutshell: there are still some people that don't understand how to use the "song writer" credit, and instead, they use "composer" for every single bit of music. All while there is this perfectly elegant solution, which lets us track every musical contributor in a way that neatly distinguishes between the actual composer of the score and other musical contributors. And hey: it's backed up by the rules as well. I fail to see why people have so much trouble applying this. The problem here T!M is that folks here argue what constitutes a song! They insist that a song is a composition of music with lyrics and that a Theme is instumental only which they feel qualifies it as a hybrid score so to speak. Of course that's obsurd but that is how the arguments have gone in these forums in the past. I'm in total agreement that "Theme by " should receive a Song Writer credit but many will argue against it and it's frustrating. | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,665 |
| Posted: | | | | It may not change the argument but it never occurred to me that this:
"Songs by Song/Music writers"
was a single phrase. I always took it as two credit types:
"Songs by" "Song/Music writers"
I'll leave it to others to decide what Music & Songs are but i never interpreted this as a single phrase. | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: i never interpreted this as a single phrase. That's actually a very good point! It could be either way. Still, even then the fact remains that using "composer" for themes is absolutely unacceptable, and considering "themes" to be "songs" for DVD Profiler purposes remains the only way we currently have to track the (pretty significant) contribution of the theme writers. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | You are not alone tweeter... I always looked at it as 2 separate credits as well... Songs By as well as Song and/or Music Writers I never once looked at it and thought Songs By Song/Music Writers. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | Let's put this in perspective folks. Considering the fact that out of the 15 votes on the contribution in question, with only two votes against this, mine and one other user, shows that a majority of users are either confused on this issue or feel that Themes by & Additional Music = Composer credits. This, IMO, needs addressing in the Music Credit table once and for all. | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote: With the approval of a contribution for Stargate Continuum which added Composer credits for Theme by and Additional Music, which I voted against, am I to assume this is the road we will travel now? Stargate: Continuum is not the first such title. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Stargate: Continuum is not the first such title.
Skip I'm aware of that Skip. And the problem is that it won't be the last until this is addressed by either a definitive statement from the "powers that be" or by a clarification in the Music Credit Table in regards to Theme by or Additional Music. I just want the ping-ponging to stop. Isn't that why the rules were implemented in the first place? The mere fact that these types of contributions are continuosly accepted proves that something needs to be said on this matter. | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Correct! A definitive statement from the "powers that be" or a clarification in the Music Credit Table is what we need. I've asked for that many times before, but to no avail just yet... |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Correct! A definitive statement from the "powers that be" or a clarification in the Music Credit Table is what we need. I've asked for that many times before, but to no avail just yet... What I fail to comprehend is; Why the reticence on the part of "The Powers that be" to make such a definitive statement on this matter? | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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