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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,672 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have a feeling that this may have been discussed in the past, but I don't recall what the result was.
Anyway, I just watched The One That Got Away (883904-106869). In the opening credits Hardy Krüger's name is spelled (correctly) "Krüger", but in the end credits it's spelled "Kruger".
My personal feeling is that if a name is spelled differently in the opening and end credits, and you know (and can show) that the spelling in the opening credits is correct, then that spelling should be used.
One solution would be using "credited as Hardy Kruger", but that's slightly misleading since he is actually credited both ways. The rules just say "exactly as credited". It does not specify that the end credits outweigh the opening credits.
Thoughts? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I understand your line of reasoning, however I'm inclined to use "credited as". The reason is that the Contribution Rules - at least the way I read them - say that IF so-called standard credits (defined as cases "where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film") exist, one is to "take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited". The same paragraph of the rules also stipulates: "Some actors may be credited a second time in either credits at either the opening or close of the film.".
So it would seem that in any case where standard credits in the form of complete end credits exist, these take precedence over any other credits.
So I would say: use "Credited As" - provided that "Krüger" rather than Kruger is the most commonly credited name. (In this case refer to both the opening credits and other information to document that Krüger and Kruger are the same person in your contribution notes.)
If however Kruger is the most commonly credited name it should be entered as such. The point is: DVDP is not after "correct" names, but after the most commonly credited names. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
I understand your line of reasoning, however I'm inclined to use "credited as". The reason is that the Contribution Rules - at least the way I read them - say that IF so-called standard credits (defined as cases "where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film") exist, one is to "take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited". The same paragraph of the rules also stipulates: "Some actors may be credited a second time in either credits at either the opening or close of the film.".
So it would seem that in any case where standard credits in the form of complete end credits exist, these take precedence over any other credits.
So I would say: use "Credited As" - provided that "Krüger" rather than Kruger is the most commonly credited name. (In this case refer to both the opening credits and other information to document that Krüger and Kruger are the same person in your contribution notes.)
If however Kruger is the most commonly credited name it should be entered as such. The point is: DVDP is not after "correct" names, but after the most commonly credited names. I agree... with standard credits you must take the info from end credits per rules. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I agree... with standard credits you must take the info from end credits per rules. I agree too; end credits (with credited as if necessary) because dems da Rules. | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong | | | | Last edited: by Voltaire53 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | It doesn't matter what the opening credits say. If there are standard credits, then the rule is clear, you must use the spelling in the end credits.
That's not to say you can't use the 'credited as' feature, but the credited name must match the end credits. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
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Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Like everyone else has said the Opening Creds are totally irrelevant. However the CA would be reasonable.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | So when did end credits replace opening credits as "standard credits"? 1957 would seem like it could go either way... Many old films don't have end credits at all. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Funny... Each time the rules are not 100% clear, and people have the possibility to choose between correct data and wrong data, most people here explain that wrong data should be used... Masochism ? | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,672 |
| | Posted: | | | | Gosh, there seems to be consensus! I'm not used to that  (Edit: I spoke too soon. Surfeur posted while I was writing...) "Credited as" it is, then (yes, CLT results support this) | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,494 |
| | Posted: | | | | Personally I prefer opening credits as these Names are the 'Stars' of the film and the names you want to see in the film you are about to see and enjoy.,, But take the case of Costner's 'Open Range' and you'll find the biggest names of the film ( Costner, Duval and Bening) as the last names in the Credit scroll at the end of the film., which of course means that those important names will not be visible in the view part of the casting of the Invelos Cast/Crew scroll in your program..
So as you can see 'end credits' are more or less setup by screen appearance and/or by 'protocol' of the director . | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
So when did end credits replace opening credits as "standard credits"? 1957 would seem like it could go either way... Many old films don't have end credits at all. That's how they're defined in the rules: Quote:
For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". So if a film has "standard credits" (like this one sounds it does) we only use those for cast and crew. Edit: sorry, I just realised - are you actually asking when films started using end credits instead of opening credits? | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,672 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since my original question has been answered, I don't mind if we "derail" this thread with a discussion on when films started using end credits.
I'd say it has been on and off. In the thirties, Universal (and perhaps others) often used both opening and end credits. "A good cast is worth repeating". | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke:
Edit: sorry, I just realised - are you actually asking when films started using end credits instead of opening credits?
That's right. I'm not disputing the rules, just curious when a standard was established and if it was a formal decision or "just happened". | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
So when did end credits replace opening credits as "standard credits"? 1957 would seem like it could go either way... Many old films don't have end credits at all. See the Rules. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Quoting Patsa:
Quote:
So when did end credits replace opening credits as "standard credits"? 1957 would seem like it could go either way... Many old films don't have end credits at all.
See the Rules.
Skip Skip, Patsa was asking the date when Hollywood started using the end credits instead of the opening credits. This is nothing to do with the rules - it was a general enquiry. | | | | Paul |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Edit: sorry, I just realised - are you actually asking when films started using end credits instead of opening credits? That's right. I'm not disputing the rules, just curious when a standard was established and if it was a formal decision or "just happened". Sorry about the misunderstanding. Yeah, I remember seeing the "good cast" title cards in the 30s too. But I remember even films in the 70s didn't have huge end credits, so I think the crawls we have now are still a recent phenomenon. |
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