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Using 'credited as' for people with two initials...is it needed?
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I was looking at a contribution change for 'Spiderman' and noticed that the contributor was using the 'credited as' field for the following two actors:

J. K. Simmons [J.K. Simmons]
K. K. Dodds [K.K. Dodds]

The reason this is being done is because the person's name has been parsed differently by different people.  Some have done it 'J./K./Simmons'  while others have done it 'J.K./ /Simmons'...the latter being done because there is not space between the two initials.

My question is, should we be doing this?  To me, it makes more sense to simply change the way the names are parsed but I am wondering what other people think.

Please note, I am not attacking the person making the contribution...this just made me stop and wonder for a minute.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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It's always confused me too. Although I've always considered it a typographic choice on the part of the credits creators more than having anything to do with the name itself.
For example I've seen credits for D.B. Sweeney, but there has been documentation in these forums before showing that these are two names, not a double-barrelled first name, and so the D./B./ parsing would be correct.
Whether we should use "credited as" to show there's no space between the initials - I'm undecided. I mean, how small does the gap have to be before we claim there is none?
Personally I would never vote no on such a submission, but I don't think I'd ever do it myself.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
I aim to misbehave
Registered: June 12, 2007
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I saw another of these just in the past few days.  I don't see it adding value to the data though.

I'd never submit something that splits hairs this way.  The two initials appear to run together because that's a stylistic choice of whoever did the credits.  It may be different the next time someone does credits.

Can (should) this be stopped?
Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
 Last edited: by tweeter
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheFly
Registered: March 18, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 103
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I'd say this is another good reason to change to a two-field Given Name/Family Name structure.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I often have a hard time determing whether or not there's a space between the period and second initial when I look at a screen credit.  I have the same problem with people either adding or removing a space after an ellipsis in an overview "because that's what is shown on the cover.  I don't know as it makes that much difference, except that a long sentence will scroll on a space but not if there's no space.  It just makes the resulting paragraph "fuller" with less jagged ends of the lines.

J. K. Simmons [J.K. Simmons] = One could argue it either way.  (1) It should be J./K./Simmons because it stands for Jonathan/Kimble/Simmons.  (2) It should be J.K.//Simmons because he uses J.K. as his stage name (single name).  Who's to say which is better?

And while TheFly is correct about this being a good reason for a two-field name structure, I'm still agin' it.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I would not vote against the change either as the CLT shows both variants exist.  I can also see that it can go either way.  It just seems odd, at least to me, to have the same actor listed twice simply because one of a space...or lack of...between the 'J.' and the 'K.'.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Of course you're right, Unicus.  But it's gonna be hard to get any kind of consensus with THIS crowd.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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This is all very similar to the whole debate on entering suffixes. If you feel the difference between J.K. Simmons and J. K. Simmons is a "typographic choice on the part of the credits creators" (dixit northbloke), then I'd say that the difference between Robert Downey Jr. and Robert Downey, Jr. is such a "typographic choice", too. For both issues I feel Invelos should simply set a standard - I have pleaded for this many, many times before. IMHO, that's the only way to end it, and probably also the only way to clean up all those pointless double entries for the same people.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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No comment, we have had this discussion too many times already. Ken made the point quite correctly.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
Reg: 31/01/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Yet another vote from someone who thinks pointlessly creating new name entries is a terrible idea. I'm sure it would be possible to start analysing the width of spaces between all the letters in the words but I fail to see ANY value in this.

And before contributing a change.. Make sure your contributions add significant value to the database.

as it says in the rules
Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormdnitoil
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I haven't noticed that it hurts anything since, in this case, new actors are not being created.  That being said, I voted neutral and won't be accepting in my local.  If somebody wants to actually go through and do a credited as to remove a parsing space, it's their energy not mine.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Even if it's just a space, it's still treated as two different names in the database. And this is one case where going to a single name field won't solve the situation.

But yeah, it would be nicer if we could have a standard, like always type double initials with a space between them.
First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBehemot
Registered: Aug. 23, 2004
Registered: March 14, 2007
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IMO, there's no difference between J.K. and J. K., and both variants should be parsed J. / K. The punctuation mark means that they are two separate names. It's a different situation with JK vs. J K - IMO these are two "different" credits and should be parsed JK /  and J / K  , respectively, since there is no punctuation mark.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
prev. known as ya_shin
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I agree with Behemot.
Achim [諾亞信; Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Behemot:
Quote:
IMO, there's no difference between J.K. and J. K., and both variants should be parsed J. / K. The punctuation mark means that they are two separate names. It's a different situation with JK vs. J K - IMO these are two "different" credits and should be parsed JK /  and J / K  , respectively, since there is no punctuation mark.


You be correct! 
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKatatonia
Retired Profiler
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Behemot:
Quote:
IMO, there's no difference between J.K. and J. K., and both variants should be parsed J. / K. The punctuation mark means that they are two separate names. It's a different situation with JK vs. J K - IMO these are two "different" credits and should be parsed JK /  and J / K  , respectively, since there is no punctuation mark.


Agreed.
Corey
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