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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | If the credits of a film (circa 1974) do not list either a Cinematographer or Director of Photography, but list a "Lighting Cameraman" in the opening credits where you would typically see such a credit, should it be added or not?
Also... on the DVD's back cover for this film this "Lighting Cameraman" is credited as the "Cinematographer" in the back cover's credit block. | | | | Corey |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | CinematographerQuote:
The term cinematographer has been a point of contention for some time now; some professionals insist that it only applies when the director of photography and camera operator are the same person, although this is far from being uniformly the case. To most, cinematographer and director of photography are interchangeable terms. Quote:
The English system of camera department hierarchy sometimes firmly separates the duties of the director of photography from that of the camera operator to the point that the DP often has no say whatsoever over more purely operating-based visual elements such as framing. In this case, the DP is often credited as a lighting cameraman. This system means that the director consults the lighting cameraman for lighting and filtration and the operator for framing and lens choices.
In the American system, which is more widely adopted, the rest of the camera department is subordinate to the DP, who, along with the director, has the final word on all decisions related to both lighting and framing. so it would depend if this is an US or UK movie as there are two systems | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
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  | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would say no, as the rules specifically state to list the credits precisely as they appear. | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | correct: Quote:
For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Film Credits to Include" column. If someone is not credited with one of these roles, do not include them in the Crew section. but then there is a huge problem with the foreign made movies: none of them are according this part of the rule as most of them are listed in their own languages and the rules only cover English US. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Katatonia: Quote:
If the credits of a film (circa 1974) do not list either a Cinematographer or Director of Photography, but list a "Lighting Cameraman" in the opening credits where you would typically see such a credit, should it be added or not?
Also... on the DVD's back cover for this film this "Lighting Cameraman" is credited as the "Cinematographer" in the back cover's credit block. This is an interesting dilemma. On the one hand, he is not credited with a DVDP role. On the other hand, they have translated the credited role to the modern equivalent, albeit on the DVD case. Unfortunately, strictly 'by the rules', we can not enter him. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
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- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with Unicus.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here
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 | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | If it's a U.K. production, and if said "lighting cameraman" credit is the only cinematography credit, I'd enter him. As others have pointed out, we need to translate foreign job descriptions to fit our credits table, and that is allowed: that eliminates the 'strictly by the rules' bit. IMHO this is no different: I consider this translating an "U.K. English" job title to its "American English" counterpart.
We've often had the same debate about the U.K. job title of "dubbing mixer" as well - which "translates" to re-recording mixer in American English... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | I also agree with T!M. Some crew roles are different in "UK English" than in "US English". UK Dubbing Mixers and Dubbing Editors = US Re-recording Mixers and Sound Editors, and a UK Sound Recordist is the same as a US Production Sound Mixer. Info on this can be found here: http://www.amps.net/The crew roles in DVD Profiler are, after all, modelled on US crew role norms, it should therefore be allowed to credit the UK equivalents for those roles. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | and shurely any other language used in a movie credit. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
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| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Would the UK English credits require the Country of Origin be the UK?
I think it would be a worthwhile rule change (i can think of at least one movie in my collection that would benefit) but for overall clarity a rule change is how it should be fixed. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Unfortunately, strictly 'by the rules', we can not enter him. Sure we can. The rules here are written a little bit strangely. But if we follow your interpretation, we can not list "written and directed by" as well. Not speaking of credits in other languages than English. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Would the UK English credits require the Country of Origin be the UK? Not necessarily! There are a lot of European films which follow the Hollywood style of credits. Why shouldn't it be possible to find a film which does it the other way around? |
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