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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Request for a Benelux locality |
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| Registered: November 11, 2007 |  Posts: 44 |
| | Posted: | | | | Locality again, this time about "When Harry met Sally", 8 712626 008200 There was recently a debate of the same kind about "Entrapment". Both DVD covers hold comments, chapter list, infos in two languages, French and Dutch. We more or less agreed that Entrapment's locality should be Belgium, but, on this DVD, it is written, in plain words : VERSIE - VERSION : Benelux... Are there other examples of a supra-national locality plainly stated on DVDs? ( Benelux stands for BElgique/lgië/lgien - NEderland - LUXemb(o)urg) | | | | Lernu la internacian lingvon | | | | Last edited: by Sxilderik |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is not un-common at all. This "VERSIE - VERSION : Benelux" you refer to is printed on hundreds of MGM releases. The same DVD, with covers etc. in both Dutch and French, is released in the entire Benelux. It doesn't really mean we need a separate "Benelux" locality: current practice is that these DVD's can be entered both under the Dutch and under the Belgian locality. Important: if you use the Dutch locality, you'd only enter the Dutch text from the cover, but for the Belgian locality, it is allowed to enter both the Dutch and the French overview, as the country is bi-lingual itself. |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Benelux releases are VERY common indeed (as I already remarked in the other thread). But a separate locality for it would only create more doubles, because these releases already have Dutch and Belgian profiles. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Benelux releases are VERY common indeed (as I already remarked in the other thread). But a separate locality for it would only create more doubles, because these releases already have Dutch and Belgian profiles. Sounds logical. Agreed | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Benelux releases are VERY common indeed (as I already remarked in the other thread). But a separate locality for it would only create more doubles, because these releases already have Dutch and Belgian profiles. And I too agree. No need for a Benelux locality. I guess the `Entrapment` discussion ended in something France: French informationThe Netherlands: Dutch informationBelgium: Both Dutch and French information | | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: November 11, 2007 | | Posts: 44 |
| | Posted: | | | | ok, time for a little devil plea :
... but then, what happened to "bad data is bad data is bad data"?
The Benelux releases are ONE release, which are also sold online in France (discount online stores, more on that below)
The "correct" locality is Benelux, the "bad" localities are Belgium, Netherlands (France). The subtle distinction (copy only NL overview for NL localities, NL/FR for BE, only FR for FR) is a smoke shield to cover the fact that we are creating two (possibly three - or four : is there a Luxemb(o)urg locality?) profiles for only ONE object, ONE same sale product, and we keep doing the "bad" thing because there is already lots of such bad data in the database.
More on locality : I'm still looking for a satisfactory definition of "locality". "The country I bought the DVD in" falls short for me, since I buy all my DVDs from online stores : I honestly can't tell if I would find thoses DVD on street retail stores. I bought the Benelux releases from discount online stores for their (much) lower prices, not knowing they were Benelux releases (sometimes it's said on the product description, sometimes not), not knowing whether I could find them also in the store downstairs.
As I feel it, all the Benelux releases which have been entered in the Invelos database under France locality were actually bought this way. Of course I may very well be wrong, and thoses Benelux releases may have been legitimately sold in official french stores, possibly in the France/Belgium border areas, but, since there are official (generally more expensive) specific french releases, I don't think so.
Fixing the db and updating all the local profiles sounds quite a heavy task. But to me, it is "bad data".
Just providing food for thoughts... | | | | Lernu la internacian lingvon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 413 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sxilderik, I don't understand why you see it problematic to have the same object entered in different localities. We do that all the time in the Nordic countries. See eg. following DVD back covers   These same DVD packages are sold in four countries and therefore they are (or should be) available in DVDP with all four localities. I personally do not care whether the Swedes, Danes or Norwegians have entered them in their locality. If they have and it is still not available in Finnish locality, I might download the profile, change the locality and then contribute it as a Finnish release. |
| | Registered: November 11, 2007 | | Posts: 44 |
| | Posted: | | | | Very interesting, thanks...
Well, I've been a db admin (among other things) for a looong time, and unjustified redundancy is one arch-foe of mine.
Your example transforms ONE object into FOUR. It means that every correction has to be applied four times, it means that contributions have to be reviewed four times, it means there is a high risk of incoherences...
Well, to be frank, I'm the one who doesn't understand why you (generic you) don't see it problematic...
(Unless I'm completely mistaken and the profile - locality is a "1 to n" relation, but this is not what I understood) | | | | Lernu la internacian lingvon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Sxilderik: Quote:
More on locality : I'm still looking for a satisfactory definition of "locality". "The country I bought the DVD in" falls short for me That definition would fall short for me as well. But, IIRC, the definition actually is: "The country [countries] the DVD is originally intended to be sold in, i.e. the market the DVD is originally produced for."Jykke's example is intended to combine four different releases into one for production cost purposes, so are the releases for the Benelux countries (and, btw, Benelux is not a country and therefore doesn't qualify to either definition for locality mentioned so far). I would object to the introduction of a Skandinavian locality as well, and for the same reasons. sometime down the road, people might otherwise get the idea of introducing a locality "Europe" (after all, we're getting rid of more and more borders) and pour all kinds of profiles together. And the information also isn't redundant IMO, especially since it makes setting up the other locality profiles so much easier. | | | | Lutz | | | | Last edited: by Darxon |
| | Registered: November 11, 2007 | | Posts: 44 |
| | Posted: | | | | As to the Benelux releases sold in France stores, I've been told that this is the case. But to me, this is then [import] releases. Those releases were not initially produced for the french market ( Version Benelux written on the back cover is a big hint), they made their way to the french general stores because of the common language (Lomé's or Lausanne's Storemarts are next) I think I remember the locality rules stating that [import] releases should not be wrongly localized... --------- What I'm trying to achieve in this discussion is, as always, DQM : valid data in the database. The notion of "locality" looks wierdly used to me : I think the database should hold "releases" (re-releases is another discussion altogether), linked to the countries thoses releases have been marketed for. I thought a Benelux locality could have a meaning, but I learnt that that notion may have been used by only one company (MGM), and other releases list clearly the countries they have been released for, without the need of a overall name. So, my position has changed : no longer a Benelux locality (nor a Scandinavian one, either), but a 1-n relation between actual product and the intended countries. After all, this is the same object we have in our hands, the same DVD we watch, and we can cooperatively contribute to it, either in French or Dutch, or Norwegian/Swedish/Danisk/Finnish (what happened to Icelandic?). After all, it means the overview will be duplicated (of fourplicated  ), and that's about it. No big deal, plus it's already n-plicated on the original material. With that, we gain unicity in all other info (including crew and cast!). Maybe it's something to consider for a next major upgrade of the database... | | | | Lernu la internacian lingvon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Sxilderik: Quote:
So, my position has changed : no longer a Benelux locality (nor a Scandinavian one, either), but a 1-n relation between actual product and the intended countries.
After all, this is the same object we have in our hands, the same DVD we watch, and we can cooperatively contribute to it, either in French or Dutch, or Norwegian/Swedish/Danisk/Finnish (what happened to Icelandic?). After all, it means the overview will be duplicated (of fourplicated ), and that's about it. No big deal, plus it's already n-plicated on the original material. With that, we gain unicity in all other info (including crew and cast!).
I suggest you raise this in the Feature Request forum.
Maybe it's something to consider for a next major upgrade of the database... | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 767 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sort of related: Does anyone think we need a locality "Europe"? This could be especially for music dvd's. Most have "made in the EU" on the back cover, and the locality is not always clear. Most profiles are from the country where the first contribution was made, and that's not necessarily the actual locality. DVD's from EMI, Universal, Warner and all the other big record companies manufacture the discs in Germany, with a German and a UK rating on the cover. Sometimes I use locality UK, because the overview is in Engish and this is the most common locality in Europe. But these dvd's are also sold in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, etc.
Some titles have 10 profiles (for each country), and these could be covered by just one. Good or bad idea? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Release dates and SRP would still differ even if the DVD is exactly the same. So we get a possible ping-pong situation if we only have one locality for Europe (or EU, not even all the EU countries use one currency at the moment.) | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Normally I'd say the included rating symbols give a very good idea of the locality the DVD was originally intended for, if not on the cover, then on the disc or on screen. | | | | Lutz |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting marcelb7: Quote:
Sort of related: Does anyone think we need a locality "Europe"? This could be especially for music dvd's. Most have "made in the EU" on the back cover, and the locality is not always clear. Most profiles are from the country where the first contribution was made, and that's not necessarily the actual locality. DVD's from EMI, Universal, Warner and all the other big record companies manufacture the discs in Germany, with a German and a UK rating on the cover. Sometimes I use locality UK, because the overview is in Engish and this is the most common locality in Europe. But these dvd's are also sold in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, etc.
Some titles have 10 profiles (for each country), and these could be covered by just one. Good or bad idea? terrible idea, as well as the Language of the overview the SRP will be completely different in each country. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | So what we need is a new feature which allows us to select multiple countries (one check for each country where it's intended for sale), and then each country gets it's own SRP, all in one profile under the shared UPC. Overview could just have all the languages printed out as they appear on the cover. That was easy wasn't it.  (I'm sure this would probably be a programming nightmare, but would clear up a ton of un-needed profiles and make for a better overall DB, if it's possible) | | | | Last edited: by bigdaddyhorse |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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