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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | assuming the data is available on all the above sources, What should be the primary source for the Name field? | | | | Stuart |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | If a name is already established in the 'credited as' database then I think it would make sense to use that. Why re-invent the wheel? | | | | Stuart |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know how much you all like polls, so I'm planning on running another after this to determine the secondary source if the favoured from this poll is unavailable. For the record, my preferred sources in order would be: 1. The credited as database (unless there was a glaring error, in which case I would suggest a correction) 2. Official Site 3. Most credited according to several sites 4. Name used according to several sites 5. The credit lookup tool. It's bottom because it's obvious that a huge amount of data is still currently a direct port from 1 particular site, and I don't mean Invelos  | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gadgeteer: Quote:
I know how much you all like polls... I think you should run a poll on this. Because I'm not so sure we're as fond of them as you seem to think we are. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Quoting Gadgeteer:
Quote:
I know how much you all like polls...
I think you should run a poll on this. Because I'm not so sure we're as fond of them as you seem to think we are. I'll let you start that one. If I do it I may get lynched  | | | | Stuart |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | When I, in discussion with James and others, put together the "credited as" database it was not intended to be a "source" in itself, but a place to gather together the sources for the names that were being established in the sticky thread. Essentially the aim to was stop everyone "reinventing the wheel" of doing the research time and again. The contribution notes it generates should provide the sources that this poll agrees are best (assuming Invelos accept them), rather then being the source in of itself. So putting the database aside... I think the best is an official site, but as we know they are few and far between. While the credit lookup tool was a good idea in principal, I find it of little use in practice. Firstly it has shown that the the online database is very heavily based on non-credits data (of one particular source it seems), so it is not finding the most credited name at all. And also, as it does not find all name variants for a searched name, but just exact matches, it is very impractical to use. It needs to find exact matches and similar to be of real use imo. So that leaves me with other web databases and sites as the primary sources.  | | | Andy 
"Credited as" Names Database |
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| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gadgeteer: Quote:
I know how much you all like polls, so I'm planning on running another after this to determine the secondary source if the favoured from this poll is unavailable. Barring a tie wouldn't the second highest vote getter be the preferred secondary source? Then we could skip right to the poll on polling!  | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm very worried to see how many people voted for "most credited using the invelos credit lookup tool"... I have actually encountered quite a number of no-votes on updates where I was correcting very obvious IMDb-data, by people saying: "but he's credited in 300 profiles as such in the new credit lookup tool, while your name only shows up 70 times". If you then check on those 300 entries, it's usually easy to point out that about 200 of them are actually in error, but the reality is that this tool has cost me quite some time PM'ing back and forth trying to convince a number of users that the credit lookup is not (or at least not yet) the authorotative source for names - sometimes with success, sometimes not.
So I can't stress this enough: the "credit lookup" is a nice tool, but what it mainly does, is show that about 75% of the Invelos-database (if it isn't a lot more) still contains IMDb-data. It cannot be regarded as an authorotative tool to establish the "name" yet. I'm not sure why so many users have voted for this... |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 41 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I'm very worried to see how many people voted for "most credited using the invelos credit lookup tool"... I have actually encountered quite a number of no-votes on updates where I was correcting very obvious IMDb-data, by people saying: "but he's credited in 300 profiles as such in the new credit lookup tool, while your name only shows up 70 times". If you then check on those 300 entries, it's usually easy to point out that about 200 of them are actually in error, but the reality is that this tool has cost me quite some time PM'ing back and forth trying to convince a number of users that the credit lookup is not (or at least not yet) the authorotative source for names - sometimes with success, sometimes not.
So I can't stress this enough: the "credit lookup" is a nice tool, but what it mainly does, is show that about 75% of the Invelos-database (if it isn't a lot more) still contains IMDb-data. It cannot be regarded as an authorotative tool to establish the "name" yet. I'm not sure why so many users have voted for this... That's what I noticed, too. It's indeed a nice tool, but it would only be completely trustworthy if the entire database would be "as credited", which it is obviously not. | | | | . · You are my center when I spin away. Out of control on videotape. On videotape · . |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | The person's official site should be the primary source. No doubt about that. The rest is pure speculation. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | Whilst the credit lookup can be useful as an aid, it should definitely not be used as a primary source because of the following reasons:
1. The database is still full of data from 'that' site. It would be no different than just using 'that' site as the source.
2. It doesn't differentiate different people with the same names, so the results will often be skewed.
3. The results are volatile. The credit counts will be constantly changing as more profiles are added or edited, which means whilst credit A may be the most credited now, later on it may be credit B, and so on.
4. You have to enter the exact name to return the results. If you don't know the variations, however minor, you won't get a true count of them.
I would be extremely interested to hear from those that voted to use it as to why they think it would be the best source? | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gadgeteer: Quote:
I would be extremely interested to hear from those that voted to use it as to why they think it would be the best source? As would I! While we're talking about this, this poll option even accumulated more votes, making it now second favorite choice!  I'm telling you: at first I thought this was a nice feature, but it's starting to be a huge bother. These people will vote against well-documented updates, saying "but he's mostly credited as so-and-so in the credit lookup feature". I then find myself having to engage in endless PM-discussions to try and explain to people that the "credit lookup" feature cannot yet be depended upon for establishing the "name", but these poll results again show that it's rather hopeless... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've always believed that no data is better than wrong data.
Frankly, I think we'd be better off without it until the database is in much better shape or at least to specify in the rules that it not to be used as the sole source. Otherwise it's inadvertantly going to allow IMDb as the source, especially for the less popular titles.
Sorry Ken. | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | I personnally voted for the person's own website...if available.
It's alright using the 'Credit Look-Up' feature on-line providing that database has the names correct in the first place.
It only takes for the name parsing to be listed incorrectly on 5 films...but correctly on only 3 and the list is out straight away.
Helena Bonham Carter for instance first credited film 'Absolutely Fabulous' as listed by 'Credit Lookup' Netherlands locality has parsing H/B/C despite it proven here in the forums that it should be H//BC.
Steve |
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