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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What is a Stage Name? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | The Rules say: Quote:
If an actor name is only a first name or stage name enter it entirely in the first name field. Examples are Cher, Madonna, Cedric the Entertainer & Queen Latifah. I would like to see if we can up with a definition of what makes a "Stage Name" for DVD Pro purposes to help determine correct parsing of names to acheive the 'common name'. My starter for 10: It's a "Stage Name" when the name...-Is a phrase or statement. Example: LL Cool James (Ladys Love Cool James), Cedric the Entertainer or -Is a common noun: Example: Meat Loaf, The Rock or -Includes a job title: Queen Latifah, Dr. Dre (Although this could conflict with the any "no prefixes" rules) | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Good luck defining that! All I can say is that I know one when I see one!  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Good luck defining that!
All I can say is that I know one when I see one! I know what you mean. But it's worth a shot. | | | | Stuart |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | John Wayne? Bud Abbott? Lauren Bacall? Barbara Bain? Michael J. Fox? Brigitte Bardot? Ethel Barrymore? John Barrymore? Lionel Barrymore? Jack Benny?  | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
John Wayne? Bud Abbott? Lauren Bacall? Barbara Bain? Michael J. Fox? Brigitte Bardot?
Ethel Barrymore? John Barrymore? Lionel Barrymore?
Jack Benny?
Technically, those are considered aliases. A 'pnome de plume' as the French say (and yes, I probably spelled it wrong). | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
John Wayne? Bud Abbott? Lauren Bacall? Barbara Bain? Michael J. Fox? Brigitte Bardot?
Ethel Barrymore? John Barrymore? Lionel Barrymore?
Jack Benny?
Technically, those are considered aliases. A 'pnome de plume' as the French say (and yes, I probably spelled it wrong). Technically, you are wrong. There is no difference. An alias by any other name... Nom de plume is used to describe aliases used by writers only. Nom de guerre by fighters or writers. An alias for any performer is called a stage name, by definition. There is no difference in "John Wayne" from "LL Cool J" or "Meat Loaf" or "Allen Smithee" or "George Spelvin" (or "Georgina Spelvin" or "Georgette Spelvin") or "Walter Plinge" or "David Agnew" or "The Rock" or "Martin Sheen" -- all are fictitious names (pseudonyms) used by people in the entertainment industry -- thus, stage names. DVD Profiler somehow separates some stage names from others. I suppose, if the stage name sounds like a real name, it gets treated like one, but if the stage name seems "different" than a possible birth name (harder to tell these days, don't you think?), then we place it only in the first name field. I think the rule has become meaningless. And filled with Skip's dreaded "opinion". ---- BTW, nom de plume is rarely said by the French. It may be in the French language, but the term is of British origin. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff | | | | Last edited: by VibroCount |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
BTW, nom de plume is rarely said by the French. It may be in the French language, but the term is of British origin. You are right. I never heard anybody in France use that. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
John Wayne? Bud Abbott? Lauren Bacall? Barbara Bain? Michael J. Fox? Brigitte Bardot?
Ethel Barrymore? John Barrymore? Lionel Barrymore?
Jack Benny?
Technically, those are considered aliases. A 'pnome de plume' as the French say (and yes, I probably spelled it wrong).
Technically, you are wrong. There is no difference. An alias by any other name...
Nom de plume is used to describe aliases used by writers only. Nom de guerre by fighters or writers.
An alias for any performer is called a stage name, by definition. There is no difference in "John Wayne" from "LL Cool J" or "Meat Loaf" or "Allen Smithee" or "George Spelvin" (or "Georgina Spelvin" or "Georgette Spelvin") or "Walter Plinge" or "David Agnew" or "The Rock" or "Martin Sheen" -- all are fictitious names (pseudonyms) used by people in the entertainment industry -- thus, stage names.
DVD Profiler somehow separates some stage names from others. I suppose, if the stage name sounds like a real name, it gets treated like one, but if the stage name seems "different" than a possible birth name (harder to tell these days, don't you think?), then we place it only in the first name field.
I think the rule has become meaningless. And filled with Skip's dreaded "opinion".
----
BTW, nom de plume is rarely said by the French. It may be in the French language, but the term is of British origin. Whatever. The point is that if I change my name to something else - like Bradley Davis - that is an alias in a legal sense. I can go into court and have my name changed legally to that if I want to, at which point it no longer is an alias. However, if I used a name like "Bradley the Entertainer" then that is clearly a stage name. Most of the people, at least in the old studio days, changed their names. John Wayne didn't go by Marian Morrison, and Cary Grant didn't use his birth name, and neither did Tony Curtis, etc. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
John Wayne? Bud Abbott? Lauren Bacall? Barbara Bain? Michael J. Fox? Brigitte Bardot?
Ethel Barrymore? John Barrymore? Lionel Barrymore?
Jack Benny?
Technically, those are considered aliases. A 'pnome de plume' as the French say (and yes, I probably spelled it wrong).
Technically, you are wrong. There is no difference. An alias by any other name...
Nom de plume is used to describe aliases used by writers only. Nom de guerre by fighters or writers.
An alias for any performer is called a stage name, by definition. There is no difference in "John Wayne" from "LL Cool J" or "Meat Loaf" or "Allen Smithee" or "George Spelvin" (or "Georgina Spelvin" or "Georgette Spelvin") or "Walter Plinge" or "David Agnew" or "The Rock" or "Martin Sheen" -- all are fictitious names (pseudonyms) used by people in the entertainment industry -- thus, stage names.
DVD Profiler somehow separates some stage names from others. I suppose, if the stage name sounds like a real name, it gets treated like one, but if the stage name seems "different" than a possible birth name (harder to tell these days, don't you think?), then we place it only in the first name field.
I think the rule has become meaningless. And filled with Skip's dreaded "opinion".
----
BTW, nom de plume is rarely said by the French. It may be in the French language, but the term is of British origin. Actually foir your information , CLIFF. I had very little to do with that particular aspect of the Rules, for many of the reasons you have already taken note of. I find your comment to highly insulting and derogatory. I recognize that is very difficult to defin stage name, as Hal I said I can't defineit but I know one, usually, when I see it. You can argue over trivialities all you wish, alias, non deplume, even nom de guerre for all I care. The concept has a purpose, and the only thing is really needed is to understand the concept, which some of us seem to be very short in. There seems to be a far bigger desire to play stupid or insist that it be done MY way (whatever that is) and become troublemakers. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think a stage name is a stage name. No one here is willing to define a real difference between Cher, John Wayne, and The Rock. None are their birth names. All were taken for reasons different, but the effect was the same. To honor one with "stage name" while ignoring the others is based on an opinion not given within the rules. How many times have you argued that we need to separate fact from opinion when applying the rules to submissions? | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I understand, but and I can only try and relay what i think the opinion of the Team was regardless of whatever my position might have been. None of us could come up wiuth what we considered an acceptable definition of stage name, and we did NOT want to apply your response to it. The fact that an actor chose to use an alias, which in the case of John Wayne, became his name, we all viewed as irelevant.
WE were trying to deal with the likes of Snoop Dog, Ice T and so forth. More than one of us said while we were unable to define what WE wanted to call a stage name, notice I said WE, not ME, not YOU not some other opionion of what it is but what WE(Profiler) were going to call it, we all had the ability to recognize it when we saw one. And I doubt seriously if anybody involved could spell out for you what they were using to judge that, I know I can't, but like the judge who also could not define porno but he knows it when he sees it, we were left in the same boat. And THAT is where it is, now if you can come up with a way to define it within the context of where we are and what has been done, that means its John//Wayne...NOT John Wayne. The fine have at it. Idoubt that you can, we have periodically had this same discussion for over two years and no one has produced anything yet.
In short what makes Snoop Dog, Ice T, Vanilla Ice, Eminem, etc, pick your poison a Stage Name for OUR purposes.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Whatever. The point is that if I change my name to something else - like Bradley Davis - that is an alias in a legal sense. I can go into court and have my name changed legally to that if I want to, at which point it no longer is an alias. However, if I used a name like "Bradley the Entertainer" then that is clearly a stage name. Most of the people, at least in the old studio days, changed their names. John Wayne didn't go by Marian Morrison, and Cary Grant didn't use his birth name, and neither did Tony Curtis, etc. "Bradley the Entertainer" only becomes a stage name if you are a performer. It is called a 'stage' name for a reason. If you are an ordinary guy and decide to use that as your name, it is still an alias. "John Wayne", "LL Cool J", "Meat Loaf", "Allen Smithee", "The Rock", "Martin Sheen", etc. are all stage names because they are 'names used on the stage'. As stage names, they should all be treated the same. For some reason, however, the decision was made to apply that rule only to stage names that didn't look like real names. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
... the decision was made to apply that rule only to stage names that didn't look like real names. There's the definition which works. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
I think a stage name is a stage name. No one here is willing to define a real difference between Cher, John Wayne, and The Rock. None are their birth names. All were taken for reasons different, but the effect was the same. To honor one with "stage name" while ignoring the others is based on an opinion not given within the rules. How many times have you argued that we need to separate fact from opinion when applying the rules to submissions? There's your problem you are trying to apply your definition and I have tried to explain ours. MOST stage names are aliases for our purposes and we treat aliases as normal names. I like what Unicus is saying and i understand it and clearly so do you Cliff, but using the approach of some users, define "real name". Ice T; Are you tellin' me my name ain't real, bro? Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Clueless.
I spent a few decades dealing with "aliases".
"Fictitious Business Names" "AKA" "stage names" "nom de plume"... I've owned them all.
Then, great joy, I spent some time in the US Air Force, where my job description required me to have a Secret clearance. Then I received training on some crypto equipment. Seems that dealing with Air Force crypto equipment requires not just a Top Secret clearance, but a highly specific one.
So, once again, the Department of Defense, Secret Service, FBI, and CIA, as well as the GAO (and a couple others) wanted me to fill out new applications for this clearance. And instead of it being a one-page, two-sided form, it was (varying by agency) between four two-sided pages and twelve double-sided pages, and every one had at least a half page (one had two pages) to list all aliases ever used in my life, defining alias as including all these variations and many more which I never used. All aliases, including all these things which add up to names I was not born with.
So I had to list Clifford Allen Adams, Cliffy Adams, Cliff Adams, CA Adams, Clifford Allen Shields, Cliff Shields, CA Shields, C.A. Shields, C.A. Adams, Holy Cow, Holy Cow & the Hindus, Sam, S.A.M., Sam Blues, S.A.M. Blues, A Resounding Tinkle, George Metesky, George Metesky & the Mad Bombers, Watermelon Heaven, Tab Koller, Tab Collar, Pudgy Parchisi, Ralph, Ralph the Wonder Dog, Captain Soul, Capt'n Soul, The Walrus, Dante, Dante Alighieri, The Next Voice You Hear, and about 200 more aliases I had carried. I recall most of them because every agency had no problem giving me a Crypto Top Secret clearance with any of them except two.
Despite me being the band leader (stage name, right?) of the band "George Metesky & the Mad Bombers", and thus billed as he, and getting checks made out both to "George Metesky" and to "George Metesky & the Mad Bombers", if I listed either of these names with which I had filed fictitious business statements and added "DBA" to my checking account, I would not only be rejected for my crypto clearance, but also lose my Secret clearance and thus not be allowed to do what I did in the Air Force. All agencies suggested I just not list these two.
Different names, all used as an alias, nearly all as a stage name.
So... "George Metesky". "Pudgy Parchisi". "Holy Cow". All were me. All were as phony as The Rock. I was never George//Metesky, Pudgy//Parchisi, nor Holy//Cow. I was, in every case, using a stage name. George Metesky//, Pudgy Parchisi//, Holy Cow//.
I expect a logical explanation as to how these three stage names (aliases by the US Gov't) can be reconciled with your stage name vs. normal name waffles. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ax with others on similar issues, Cliff. Your experience is irrrelevant, sorry, when this was discussed we made a distiction in the group between a Stage Name and an alias. Aliases such as John Wayne were treatred as any other name while Stage names were something entirely different and something as I said we could all identify but not define. This is DVDProfiler we apply definitons that fit the program, these may or may NOT coincide with the definition that you might apply or even that I might apply...so what. It's not SkipProfiler, so I follow the Program definitions. SkipProfiler is my local, where I make the Rules to suit ME, CliffProfiler is similarly based on your computer.
Sheeesh, why is everybody tryting to warp the program to fit their view of things.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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