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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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common name problem: Separate contribution of Cast/Crew Members |
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| Registered: April 1, 2007 |  Posts: 53 |
| | Posted: | | | | A lot of discussions & arguments were going on... As I am sick at home for a couple of days I had a bit more time to think... ;-) I propose the following change: 1) The information to individual Casts and Crew Members should be maintained separately, separately contributed and separately voted on. (completely separate from DVDs, this shall be like a casts/crew database!) 2.) An online page with all details of all Casts/Crew members would be nice. 3.) There will be rules in place how the mandatory data should be filled in. (-> finally no arguments about Shortnames, use of birth years, "Jr.") 4.) Add more optional information (homepage, bio etc.) would be nice (-> finally the full Birth date, which is useful could be optionally entered) About the linking DVDs -> Casts/Crew Members: 5.) The "Credit As" field shall show the name exactly as shown in the credits of the DVD. This shall remain FIX what ever happens to the information about the actor. 6.) You have to link the Casts/Crew Members to an existing & contributed cast/crew member. (This can happen automatically by DVDprofiler if the match is 1:1, it may be needed to do manually by the contributor if not) 7.) Changes to the information of an Cast/Crew Member (after approval of such a contribution) will be effective immediatly on *all* profiles that have Casts/Crew links to this person. This shall *not* affect the "credited as" field. Without an organized and rule based entering of Casts/Crew Members we will never solve this issue...But, as usual for forums, above ideas will just disappear onto page 15 in a couple of weeks... But... that's life  But who knows... maybe Ken sees it accidently... Technical not: You have to use a technical key as a primary key and NOT the name of the Cast/Crew Member. Only then the updates to all dvds will be automatically. Cheers, NEWT0N | | | | Last edited: by NEWT0N |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Newton:
While on the surface this sounds reasonable and there have been times when i would have liked it. On the whole, it is impractical and will cut down tremendously on the voting, the average film has somewhere around 30 Cast members alone, with some being substantially longer. One notably weighing in at nearly 1200 Cast members. This does not include crew. I f I had to vote on each and every cast and crew entry...welll let's just say it wouldn't happen and i seriously doubt just for me.
We already have Rules in place for how to deal with cast and crew data, list them exactly as you see them credited and in the same order. Nothing more is needed. Where the criteria is still needed is in the area of dealin with the "Commoin"(Prority) Name, we have nothing there as yet, though Ken is working on something, we have to wait and see.
I think you are confusing Online with Local, most of what I see in your post, youCAN do this, like the BY. If YOU find the BY data to be useful to you for every actor, you can do this, you cannot Contribute that data because it is outside of our Rules, but you can maintain anything you want to locally, you can also handle names in any way you wish locally.
The Online database cannot be and will never be a resource that will meet the needs of EVERY user. It's purpose is only to provide a common starting poinnt from which youy construct your CUSTOMIZED database that meets YOUR objectives. IF you keep your data completely locked, when you upload it, the Invelos servers will create a clone of your data for all to see, otherwise your collection will constructed from the Invelos data.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 1, 2007 | | Posts: 53 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Skip, I think you just jump on the additional information part. That's not what my posting is about. Please read it again. I propose that we introduce 1.) Contribution system on Casts/Crews 2.) true linking to them 3.) rules Without that, everebody makes his own rules about when to use a middle name, initials, a birthyear, the most common name, the real name, a shortcut of a name etc. Ken can give use some numbers about: - # dvds - # Cast Member - # Crew Members Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
We already have Rules in place for how to deal with cast and crew data, list them exactly as you see them credited and in the same order. Nothing more is needed. Where the criteria is still needed is in the area of dealin with the "Commoin"(Prority) Name, we have nothing there as yet, though Ken is working on something, we have to wait and see. You probably never programmed anything: With this the feature of DVDProfiler that you can see in which other dvd the same actor is playing is NOT possible. You need an an entity/class "cast" and "crew" - even when you don't want to believe this... Cheers, NEWT0N | | | | Last edited: by NEWT0N |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Newton: I am well aware of this and besides Ken, once it was discovered that his prohibition against using third party datasource broke the existing linking at that time, I was probably the first user to point that out to him. It took him THREE years with interference beyond his control to develop the system we have now. For your information, I AM a programmer and have developed some databases far larger than this one. Every one needs square one to operate from, with the prohibition of third party data, ours became the film's credits PERIOD, also knowing that a new alias system was in the works. The Community has been discussing the Common)Priority) Name for last 2 months to no avail, a set of criteria simply has been unable to be agreed upon and the BY addition has complicated matters for a number of different reasons. Since the Comunity cannot resolve the criteria issue, it becomes Ken's to solve and he is working on it, we can only wait and see what he is doing. he has made some comments about it publicly and i think i understand how it will function, but until it is unveiled I will not offer any speculation or evaluation of it. I will sit back and patiently wait. Now then, a little suggestion, you did fine...until "You probably never programmed anything". As the saying goes, them's fighting words, son. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | One thing that would make this very hard to do is all of the different cuts for some films. Each cut may have its own cast list, if you cut out a scene you may remove an actor from the film. Also we have films that have credits modified for the local language. We would need to keep many "approved" cast/crew lists for so films and then we need a good way to know which list goes with which DVD. The easy way to do all this is to use the system that we have now.  pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
One notably weighing in at nearly 1200 Cast members. Are you referring to "Around the World in 80 Days"? Of those 1200 cast members, approx. 1150 are uncredited... | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's irrelevant how many are (uncredited), Achim. Can you imagine having to vote on each one individually.<groan> Of course by our standards TODAY, there would probably be nowhere close to 1150 but it is still a frightening prospect. I'll probably have nightmares tonight about it. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 1, 2007 | | Posts: 53 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
We would need to keep many "approved" cast/crew lists for so films and then we need a good way to know which list goes with which DVD. I am not speaking of approving the cast/crew list. This is already done today. I am speaking of approving the information of Casts/Crew Members once they are introduced. In our "Simon Baker" case the two actors would need to be approved once, and then for every user that adds a dvd with one of the two actors can use the approved data instead of making his own "Simon Richard Baker", "Simon Baker-Danny" etc. Cheers, NEWT0N |
| | Registered: April 1, 2007 | | Posts: 53 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
It's irrelevant how many are (uncredited), Achim. Can you imagine having to vote on each one individually.<groan>
(...)
I'll probably have nightmares tonight about it. You don't have to contribute every actor again... once it is in the system it is fine. As there are around 5-10 different dvds for the same movie and the fact that most actors play in more than one movie the chances that you are the first on for every one of the actor in a dvd contribution is rare... btw. If the Cast/Crew Lists would be per movie and not per dvd the effort of the community would drop by a factor of around 5-10. You don't seem to have nightmares about this... Cheers, NEWT0N |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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