I brought this up 10 years ago with the majority of the community voting that this data should not be included: http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=568614.

But, Ken weighed in and stated this data should be included: http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=438798&PageNum=9.

I can see an argument for including ADR cast because we don't argue against including visual effects artists and sound re-recording mixers in the crew section

However, I would much rather the cast section included those who are seen in live-action films or provide the main voices for animated films. (Additional Voices is always a separate category with its own group divider.) Adding ADR makes things much more messy and overcrowded IMO.

Carrying on with the crew analogy, we don't include Foley artists, arguably the sound department equivalent of those who provide ADR voices.

Well, I guess I'll have to accept it as cast. Here is an observations, though:

ADR is not just additional voices. ADR is lip syncing dialog, most often used for scenes shot on location where the production sound isn't good enough. In most cases the onscreen actors will do their own ADR, unless they are unavailable for some reason.

Here we have 35 (!) people in a group called just "ADR Group". It doesn't actually say "voice", that's an assumption on the part of the contributor. A fairly reasonable assumption, given that there are other specific ADR crew roles listed before the group, but still an assumption.

The question in my mind is - why would they need 35 additional voice artists doing lip syncing?

Quoting Gamemaster:

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With such large groups there are probably scenes with large crowds, like a full restaurant or a big battle etc.

They would hardly need to lipsync large crowds, would they?

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I totally agree with T!M and with Ken's statement I think it's pretty clear there's a reason for not adding them or removing them.

A reason for not adding them? I don't think T!M or Ken suggested that. 

Quoting Gamemaster:

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Lip sync is indeed not necessary, but they do provide the voices for that crowd and in my opinion that meets the requirement for the non-specific voice credits as stated by Ken.

Right, but why would they be credites as ADR if they're not lip syncing?

There are quite a few people who, on principle, feel that ADR does not belong in the cast section, which I understand, but again, if they're credited as a group of "ADR Cast" is, then it's pretty hard to argue with the word "Cast" in there, right? If the filmmakers are explicitly calling them "Cast", then who are we to argue? And subsequently, if I'm entering these people when they're called "ADR Cast", then why wouldn't I enter them when they're credited as "ADR Voices"? What's the difference? Talk to one of these people, and I guarantee you they'll tell you that there *is* no difference, that they're doing the same job. Again, it's not that I've always aspired to enter ADR groups into my database - it's just that after the database has been flooded with these people credited as "ADR Cast" and "Voice Actors", there's no reason anymore to suddenly draw the line at "ADR Voices". As I said: either we don't track any of them, but words like "Cast" and "Actors" make that impossible, or we track all of them.

If we're looking at a very busy voice actress like Wendy Hoffman(n), common name-finding thread here, then she's credited in my database under many different job titles, including:

Additional Voices
ADR Cast
ADR Voices
ADR Voice Group
Loop Group
Voice Actors
Voice Cast

Again, it's pretty hard to argue with roles as "Voice Actors", "ADR Cast" and "Voice Cast" - still, anyone can say "I personally don't feel they're cast", but if the credits explicitly call them "Cast" or "Actors", then they *will* make (and have made) their way into the cast lists. There's just no arguing with words like "Cast" or "Actors". And it's precisely that which has gotten me to the point of including the other job labels as well - if I'm going to track Wendy Hoffman(n)'s job in my database, then I'm tracking all of her credits, not just half or two thirds of them. So if I'm entering her when she's credited as "ADR Cast", and with the word "Cast" in that credit that's pretty much unavoidable, then I'm going to enter her if she's credited as "ADR Voices" as well. Simply because there's no difference between them: she's providing the same job in both cases.

So to everyone who feels, on principle, that "ADR Voices" aren't part of the cast, how would you handle "ADR Cast"? You still feel that's not cast? Even though the credit explicitly says so?

Once again: I'm not doing this because I desperately want to track ADR - absolutely not. I'm doing this because I'm looking at the bigger picture, which is that it's impossible to stop "ADR Cast" and "Voice Actors" credits from entering the database. And if I'm tracking a group of people credited as "ADR Cast", then I'm going to track the same group of people, doing the same job, when they're credit is "ADR Voices" as well. Either I track all of them, or none of them. Words like "Cast" and "Actors" have made the "none of them" option impossible, leaving "all of them" as the only remaining viable option to me.

While I understand T!Ms logic, by the same logic, should we not include stand-ins if they are listed. They are actors. And stunt people act as well, so why are they not included?

The argument that we should include people based on what they do rather than how they are credited seems to be a slippery slope.