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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Credit Name Parsing |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was wondering something.
How would we add unique ID's to cast/crew of dvds that will never be contributed, such as home videos or recorded tv shows/movies that aren't out on video and likely never will be.
I certainly wouldn't want to have to request an ID from Ken for Aunt Martha or Uncle Tom for some home video that I am profiling.
So perhaps a way to add a unique ID for those dvds that are to be kept local. |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is great news, the IPOS version will I am sure increase the user base enormously. (4 of my friends have already go it who I could never get interested in the desktop or Winmo version) so more techy people to moan about shortcomings in the linking system. Love the Surname Given name fields and reverse option. Best would be if it can be entry by entry.  Another vote for unique ID database. I'd like it if it could be on line or local depending on individual preference settings. To make it as easy as possible adding fuctionality to view head shots next to the potentials and the ability if on line to look for other region/format variations of a title in the database. To see who is in a movie I really want to see who is in the movie rather than those people they share a name with, this is especially true when allowing guests to chose a film for themselves Kevin Smith is an excellent example. | | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
I try to throw in my ideas.
First I fully agree we need a unique ID for the persons (all cast and crew member) in database to get rid of the BY as separator. Every person would get such a unique Id even if there's a name variant or not.
With the Id all name variants get stored together.
All persons are stored online in a person database.
In DVDP a local name (every user can enter freely) is shown.
If nothing entered the variant with the most credits is shown. (Which needs that this information is also added to the person*1) Or if this is too much programming/not possible, simply the first entered variant is the shown one, when not different entered.
It should be always possible to enter a new person and mark it as local only. Local only persons will be never uploaded.
The search field in the edit profile dialogue and the filter section should search within all variants and show me the persons which have them included. The variants should be possible to be seen. (maybe a pop-up if I point the cursor at the entry)
Let's start with the way which would be the possibility which needs the most space on the users hard disc (maybe slow) and which needs the most work before contributing:
1.) The whole person database gets downloaded to the local database once a day to be up to date. New entries in the persons database need to be done online. New entries need a note for which profile the entry is. (UPC/localiity/Title/Original title) The entries get forwarded by screeners or voters, which pay attention there is just one new entry for a new person and not two times the same.
Of course at entering new entries online existing persons should also show up (same as local) for those that might add a new person without checking.
-> The negative aspects can be seen easily in this idea. But there are also some positive aspects.
...  Seeing I'm too slow in typing so I have to go on with next points later/tomorrow. (My wife is waiting) To 1.) Something like a bulk contribution for new persons (the new ones from a complete profile) would be good. 2.) The whole person database gets downloaded to the local database once a day to be up to date. New Ids will be added for the persons that have none Ids at the upload of the profile. 3.) The local database stays as it is now. At uploading a profile the names get checked. If there's an existing name in the actor database you get ask if it is him or if it is a new one. For new ones a new ID would be added. 2.) and 3.) might be easier to use, but I think you'll get more uneeded Ids for same persons get in which would be harder too eliminate. (Same movie, different profiles) *1 Might always be needed, because without you would never know if a Id is free again. (For cases an entry has be made as new one, but later you prove it's an existing and you substitute it.) A tool like the CLT will still be needed to have a look which person has played in which movie. New variants get automatically added when a new credited as is made. For a substitute of a person you should be able to choose to do this just for the choosen profile or a substitute in the person database. Substitutes in the person database should be voted by all users that have a profile with the person in it. I bet I missed many points, so please ask for specific problems you see and missind thinks. Of course I'll also do some examples if wished. |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
I was wondering something.
How would we add unique ID's to cast/crew of dvds that will never be contributed, such as home videos or recorded tv shows/movies that aren't out on video and likely never will be.
I certainly wouldn't want to have to request an ID from Ken for Aunt Martha or Uncle Tom for some home video that I am profiling.
So perhaps a way to add a unique ID for those dvds that are to be kept local. http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=509284&PageNum=6&messageID=1456605#M1456605Have to add: It's needed at my ideas 1 -3, because all are based on the idea to have an Id for every person in the database. Of course there would be also the possibility to add an ID just for entry where it is needed. (Those with name variants or at different people with same name) But I think such a solution would be half-hearted. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Was wondering...
Are we wanting to combine the cast and crew databases into one? This way for people that do both act and direct (or produce or whatever)... when we click on their name all their work will come up together. I think it would be a plus.
I think it would also be a plus if we can have the option to have it show their cast work alone... their crew work alone... or both together. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Was wondering...
Are we wanting to combine the cast and crew databases into one? This way for people that do both act and direct (or produce or whatever)... when we click on their name all their work will come up together. I think it would be a plus.
I think it would also be a plus if we can have the option to have it show their cast work alone... their crew work alone... or both together. Capital idea. One ID per natural person, whether he acts, directs or does both. When getting the pop-up list of what he/she does, I'd even add these filters: - cast - crew - owned - wishlist - ordered Of the above, you just tick the box next to it and the list adapts accordingly. That would be really nice. Merging the cast and crew list will have the advantage also of only having to add a headshot once per person, whereas now we have to do it once for the cast listing and once for the crew listing. | | | Blu-ray collection
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|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Are we wanting to combine the cast and crew databases into one? I certainly do want that, yeah. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | I personally do not want to get cast and crew list for the same person. When I click on Eastwood as director, I do not want to see Eastwood as actor. So merging cast and crew must go with filters for list display. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm not sure this has been brought up yet, I haven't read through all the pages, but I wanted to just say something here about the linking. There were some worries presented near the beginning of the thread about the same names not separating actors or crew. Like Robert Downey for both Robert Downey, Jr. and Robert Downey, Sr. and how that might present a problem in regards to linking (so people worried that because both have used Robert Downey that their credits would all mush together in their locals, if I understood that correctly). There's really quite a simple way around that I do believe (there's gotta be... I hate to bring THIS name up... but DVDSpot, right from the beginning, never had that problem, and that's been gone for what, three years now, and I used it for what, five years? So eight years ago this problem was easily solved, so there's definitely ways around it). Each actor/crew/unique ID (I don't know, however it would work) simply has an "as credited" or an "aka" field that's attached to the name, so if you type in any given name that the actor/crew member has even been credited with, it would pull up all the names associated with it, and you choose the correct actor/crew member. You type in simply Robert Downey and it would pull up both Robert Downey, Sr. and Robert Downey, Jr. and then you select the correct one and enter it into the profile. We would still need something similar to a "common name" (the MAIN name of the actor/crew member) to link all the variants too, but I can't imagine it would be that hard (but that's coming from a place of ignorance in regards to coding and programming). Lots of people have used the name Alan Smithee, correct? You type it in, and it pulls up: Sidney Lumet, Dennis Hopper, Sam Raimi, Arthur Hiller, Jackie Cooper, Kevin Yagher etc. etc. If you were looking for Sidney Lumet, you click him and enter him. The ONLY downside I can see to this, is sometimes people might not know which Alan Smithee needs to be entered and choose the wrong one. That's usually solved by a simple hop skip and jump over to IMDB however (I know we're not supposed to use it, but it is helpful in a lot of cases). However, if we go to a FILM based system (where all the credits filter through all the same films), this would be easily spotted by someone a hell of a lot quicker than a UPC by UPC basis (if everyone from every locality saw this, someone somewhere would know the correct name to enter). This would also really help in regards to asian names and names containing accents. You type in Francois Bernard and François Bernard pops up as well. Credited As names could work just like a regular contribution. If you know Sidney Lumet was credited as Alan Smithee, you submit that as a credited as name, and it's attached to Sidney Lumet. This could also work on a basis of simply "entered what's seen". Someone doesn't know which Alan Smithee is the correct one? Whatever, they just type in Alan Smithee and enter it as seen. It's obviously not without a couple of flaws, however, I don't think we'll EVER (EVER EVER EVER!!!!  ) come up with a system that doesn't have a flaw and that everyone can 100% unanimously agree on. Anyway, just thinking out loud. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | And just personally speaking, I'd also really like to see cast and crew combined. They're the same people. Should Sandra Bullock and Sandra Bullock really be separated just because on Hope Floats she stood in front of the camera as well as behind it? She's the same person. All her credits, actor, producer, director, song writer etc. etc. should link. That's what I'd personally like to see. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is great news!
I hope this will lead to credits like J.K. Simmons and J. K. Simmons being treated like the same credit, instead of the way it is handled now, i.e. "J. K. Simmons [J.K. Simmons]", and similar examples. If Ken/Invelos could give a clear rule as to how to handle punctuation marks and initials it would be fantastic. |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I personally do not want to get cast and crew list for the same person. When I click on Eastwood as director, I do not want to see Eastwood as actor. So merging cast and crew must go with filters for list display. But if you had a tick box that you can turn on or off cast/crew listing, would that still be a problem for you? For example, if you only want to see Clint Eastwood, the actor, then you tick the box 'actor' and leave the 'crew' box unticked. You can then also do the same for crew or tick them both if you wish to see all. Additionally, I can imagine tick boxes for Owned, Wishlist and Ordered, to even further narrow the list of what you see. Would that be something you can relate to? Merrik, you post some interesting ideas and even though the details of the exact implementation vary from user to user, I see a lot of people thinking towards a unique ID system which carries all the name variants of a actor/crew member and registers the name used per profile. I think that would indeed the best way to go. | | | Blu-ray collection
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| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Taro: Quote:
But if you had a tick box that you can turn on or off cast/crew listing, would that still be a problem for you? No. That is why I wrote: Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
So merging cast and crew must go with filters for list display. It could be an option in Tools>Options>Display | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 485 |
| | Posted: | | | | Great news! Wading through already 9 pages of posts, one issue isn't quite resolved for me.
Separating a name into a given name and the family (sur)name, with the option to show it in reverse, how should that option be implemented? I read "per item", but that would be quite tedious. A global flag would be inappropriate if you have a mix of (say) Chinese movies and 'western' movies.
(PS western doesn't refer to the genre, but to the cultural use of given-name surname).
For a rough outline, I see three types of movies (or localised DVD's, if you like):
* all credits are in the form of "given-name surname", i.e. most 'western' movies
* all credits are in the form of "surname given-name", think Chinese or Korean movies
* mixed forms, like Chinese actors/crew appearing in a 'western' movie: think Zhang Ziyi in Rush Hour 2 (or was that 3?), Jet Li in Loaded Weapon 4 and numerous others, etc.
Per item specified is enormously tedious when you have many asian and 'western' movies as well. So, I would advocate a 'per actor' setting, with possibly an override per individual credit line.
Just my 2 cents. | | | Eric
If it is important, say it. Otherwise, let silence speak. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
1. There is another person with the same exact name You would not have to research this. If both persons are already in the database, the system would prompt you for a selection. Only if you were the first to enter a credit for a second person, it would be linked to the wrong person temporarily until somebody else who does the research separates them. Quote:
2. See if they ever been credited under another name If you were the first to enter the new variant, it would be separated from the other name until somebody does the research and links them. If the variants are already linked in the system, the credit would automatically link as well. I think, it would be feasible to design a system with unique IDs, where most linking research would be optional. What would be needed though, is a good user interface to split an existing ID into two when someone does the research that there are two persons with the same name. And we would need a second tool to combine to IDs into one, if the research shows that one person has already two IDs in the database. An optional but convenient third tool could move a specific credit from one ID to another. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
I'm not sure this has been brought up yet, I haven't read through all the pages, but I wanted to just say something here about the linking. There were some worries presented near the beginning of the thread about the same names not separating actors or crew. Like Robert Downey for both Robert Downey, Jr. and Robert Downey, Sr. and how that might present a problem in regards to linking (so people worried that because both have used Robert Downey that their credits would all mush together in their locals, if I understood that correctly).
There's really quite a simple way around that I do believe (there's gotta be... I hate to bring THIS name up... but DVDSpot, right from the beginning, never had that problem, and that's been gone for what, three years now, and I used it for what, five years? So eight years ago this problem was easily solved, so there's definitely ways around it).
Each actor/crew/unique ID (I don't know, however it would work) simply has an "as credited" or an "aka" field that's attached to the name, so if you type in any given name that the actor/crew member has even been credited with, it would pull up all the names associated with it, and you choose the correct actor/crew member.
You type in simply Robert Downey and it would pull up both Robert Downey, Sr. and Robert Downey, Jr. and then you select the correct one and enter it into the profile. We would still need something similar to a "common name" (the MAIN name of the actor/crew member) to link all the variants too, but I can't imagine it would be that hard (but that's coming from a place of ignorance in regards to coding and programming).
Lots of people have used the name Alan Smithee, correct? You type it in, and it pulls up: Sidney Lumet, Dennis Hopper, Sam Raimi, Arthur Hiller, Jackie Cooper, Kevin Yagher etc. etc. If you were looking for Sidney Lumet, you click him and enter him. The ONLY downside I can see to this, is sometimes people might not know which Alan Smithee needs to be entered and choose the wrong one. That's usually solved by a simple hop skip and jump over to IMDB however (I know we're not supposed to use it, but it is helpful in a lot of cases). However, if we go to a FILM based system (where all the credits filter through all the same films), this would be easily spotted by someone a hell of a lot quicker than a UPC by UPC basis (if everyone from every locality saw this, someone somewhere would know the correct name to enter).
This would also really help in regards to asian names and names containing accents. You type in Francois Bernard and François Bernard pops up as well.
Credited As names could work just like a regular contribution. If you know Sidney Lumet was credited as Alan Smithee, you submit that as a credited as name, and it's attached to Sidney Lumet.
This could also work on a basis of simply "entered what's seen". Someone doesn't know which Alan Smithee is the correct one? Whatever, they just type in Alan Smithee and enter it as seen.
It's obviously not without a couple of flaws, however, I don't think we'll EVER (EVER EVER EVER!!!! ) come up with a system that doesn't have a flaw and that everyone can 100% unanimously agree on.
Anyway, just thinking out loud. It's not the issue of what needs to be done, but how to do it without completely altering the environment. As it stands now, I do not need to be connected to invelos to do any editing of my DVD's. I enter the information and select and or add actors based upon my local DB. When I am done, I then choose to upload information into the online. With any of the common link profiles, something will have to change. either 1. Download periodically of the master Cast/crew DB onto the local computer to select the correct name 2. An interactive online experience during DVD editing/entry for cast crew entries (so as to connect to the master cast/crew DB online) 3. An interactive online experience during contributions to resolve name issues 4. Complete change as to the way Profiler handles Cast crew to a movie centric system, from a dvd centric system. (this would be the most disruptive initially) It is not a question of can we, but how to implement. Charlie |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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