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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What I would want... |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: September 29, 2008 |  Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
You brought up CDProfiler...not me.
The repetitive threads are another matter entirely, for example the Asian Name thread comes up every few weeks and the part of that that is utterly insane is that there is thread that has been stickied for that express purpose, but people will start another thread on the topic anyway.<shrugs> This makes sense...how? How often do new users ask about the green highlighting? Even as poor as our Search is and we all know that, if you search on Green you will get the answer, many times over, lol.
Skip Well I guess we just see things in different ways I suppose. I see repetitive threads as a sign that there is a problem. I think it is healthy to keep bringing it up until it is solved. Like I've said earlier or maybe on another thread, out of sight, out of mind. While you may know that there is a problem, or know the answer to a specific question that has been asked many many times, there are others who don't and getting their answers through friendly replies from other forum members, regardless of the redundancy, does nothing but strengthen the community. We should welcome open discussions about any subject, regardless of repetitiveness IMO. Only times that I would say otherwise is when it is nothing more than an attack on the community or a specific user. Neither Asian name threads, CDprofiler, or rule change requests fall into that category. (And for the record...as I quoted, you brought up CDprofiler...I was only responding to your comments about it.  ) | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm sorry Skip but I'm afraid I'll have to completely disagree with you: Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
But that is user imaginatiion, nothing that has a basisi in fact as it relates to a given film, that is what you continue to fail to understand. When a name has one and only one possible spelling, then that is not user imagination, that is hard fact. To take the example of the infamous François case: Any linguist will tell you that the highest authority on all matters related to the French language, is l'Academie Française. When they say: "Jump!", French scholars ask: "How high?" Now, if this organisation, which has worldwide recognition both in governments as well as universities, says that the only way to write François is as François, with the ç, then I think that is the strongest evidence we can find. It clearly outclasses a clerk who mindlessly types in credits for a Hollywood studio and probably wrote Francois because his keyboard doesn't have a ç. Can you see the irony? Because a low-level clerk at a Hollywood studio doesn't have European keyboard to type in his credits, you throw anything l'Academie Française has to say overboard and blindly keep going with that obvious error in the database, which doesn't only look totally ridiculous to any person speaking French, it seriously messes up the CLT. Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
And IF users would learn to inoput the data as they see it for any given film. then the CLT would properly and we could have a linking system that works, you want to short cut and ignore the data and co with only what YOU believe to be correct, and because it your belief you are unable to see the REAL data. Here I have to partly disagree. I agree that totally free user input is asking for errors and that can seriously mess up the cross linking system. In that sense, I think indeed the best way to handle it was to fall back on hard data: WYSIWYT. Sound system. However, as you so eloquently put it, we want to move forward. Moving forward means making it so the database is as much as possible free of errors. However, movie credits are notorious for spelling errors, violitions of naming conventions and general raping of mostly non-English languages. That's where I disagree with your stance on not wanting to touch on the hard data input method. I feel that if solid proof can be provided, a name in the database should be corrected. I don't mean that the hard data needs to be overwritten, it should still be there of course, but the official name should take precedence. That is the only way to eliminate both user related errors and credit errors. The biggest challenge for such a system is to redefine the rules and clearly state per language what is considered an acceptable source. Let's be honest, free user input messes up the cross linking system, but the hard data entry does it as well. That's why I feel the rules need to be refined so users can input the correct data and not copy-paste a silly error made by an office clerk who either couldn't type the correct word or made a mistake without realizing it. The way I see it, is that I approach credits as linguist, you approach it more as a data administrator or analyst, who wants a carbon copy of the original info, errors and all. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Taro:
It iis user imaginatiion when that users data disagrees with the Credited data. The credited data is factual data, anything else is imagination, supposition or hallucination. You are not understanding that our data source is the film credits and ONLY the film credits. And that we list that data as credited, not as imagined.
I think that you need to follow the Rules, You mention correct data as defined by whom you or surfeur, no thanks. We have defined CORRECT data and it is based on FACT not FICTION, if you follow the Rules you and al users will discover that the CLT would actually function as it should. Since the CLT is to be the most commonly credited name and that credited name comes from the factual data instead of some users addled brain.
Furthermore moving backwards to uer-interpreted data doesnot make the database better. Ther are plebtyn of errors in IMDb and it functions as you want it to, you are free to interpret the data just as much as you want, as I have said before that might be better for some users who believe in user-hallucinated data, after all you can track 10,000 titles for FREE over there. I want a databse that is accurate to the REAL data and a linking system that actually works correctly. Instead of trying to create another version of IMDb or reinventing their wheel, just go use it.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | *sigh*
François [Francois] |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Taro:
It iis user imaginatiion when that users data disagrees with the Credited data. The credited data is factual data, anything is imagination, supposition or hallucination. You are not understanding that our data source is the film credits and ONLY the film credits. And that we list that data as credited, not as imagined.
I think that you need to follow the Rules, You mention correct data as defined by whom you or surfeur, no thanks. We have defined CORRECT data and it is based on FACT not FICTION, if you follow the Rules you and al users will discover that the CLT would actually function as it should. Since the CLT is to be the most commonly credited name and that credited name comes from the factual data instead of some users addled brain.
Skip Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
For pre-releases, Gunnar, i will often list the for, five or six actors that I can remember, knowing that once a film is released more speciofic data will be available.  | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tom Cruise in Valkyrie is not imagination, Alien. If i tried to list his role without the credit...that would be imagination.
Nice try, though.
Clueless.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
You are not understanding that our data source is the film credits and ONLY the film credits. We perfectly know that. We are able to read the rules, and the hundreds of times you repeated the same thing. What we say is that this rule has flaws, and need to be modified if we want a correct linking. Even if, theorically, the rule+CLT could work, it doesn't. That is a fact. Personally, I contribute per the rules, so I do not mess your precious online database, then I correct things locally. But my friends that have not the time to do that often complain with not linking actors and consider this program is not so good that I tell them it is... dvdprofiler is a marvellous program, but suffers from a poor online database, generated by inadequate rules. As I already wrote, I do not know who gave to Ken the idea "take everything from the DVD", but it was the worst idea possible. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | ****Personal attack********* | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Tom Cruise in Valkyrie is not imagination, Alien. If i tried to list his role without the credit...that would be imagination.
Nice try, though.
Clueless.
Skip You are still not following the RULES. The RULES say take the information from the CREDITS! We only use REAL DATA, not IMAGINARY data. And you going by memory is not a valid SOURCE and against the RULES. Douche. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Alien Redrum |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I saw Valkyrie and its credits in the theatre, so I KNOW that Tom cruise is there and listed in the top slot. Pre-release data is just that pre-release and is subject to change, howm many time do we get data for pre-releases that winds up being very different from the release...al the time. It simply provides us with some small amount of information for upcoming titles. Or is it your position that we should only deal with DVDs which have been released.
Again nice try, you have one obejctive and that is to create an argument. Your post are going to go backl on block.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
I saw Valkyrie and its credits in the theatre, so I KNOW that Tom cruise is there and listed in the top slot. Pre-release data is just that pre-release and is subject to change, howm many time do we get data for pre-releases that winds up being very different from the release...al the time. It simply provides us with some small amount of information for upcoming titles. Or is it your position that we should only deal with DVDs which have been released.
Again nice try, you have one obejctive and that is to create an argument. Your post are going to go backl on block.
Skip Again, you are not going by the RULES. You can justify it however you'd like, but you are not using VALID data. Your data is no better than IMDB. Made up and IMAGINARY! | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am if i have a notepad with me, Alien which i generally do and i focus on the top five or so actors.
As I said all you want to do is argue, you have nio interest in constructive discussion. Good bye.
Sorry gang, i don't suffer fools well.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, let me see if I understand your position. I'll set up a hypothetical situation: A casting director spots you and decides you're perfect for the extra he needs. You play the part of an extra in the film, we'll say "guy at newsstand." After it is finished filming, the film is rushed off to have the credits done by a guy typing at a computer. He mistypes and instead of the credit reading "Guy at Newsstand = Skip" it reads "Guy at Newsstand = Skop" Nobody spots the mistake and it gets through to the finished product. Oops.
If this hypothetical movie then came out on DVD you would say that the credit should read:
"Guy at Newsstand = Skop" rather than "Guy at Newsstand = Skip [Skop]"
I may be misunderstanding your position here, however.
What I believe is wanted in the case of Francois is to credit, say François Truffaut (a well-known French director) as François Truffaut [Francois Truffaut]. That's not making anything up. It is simply saying that if Truffaut is credited with his first name spelled wrong, it should be entered in the [credited as] field rather than the main field. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
I am if i have a notepad with me, Alien which i generally do and i focus on the top five or so actors.
As I said all you want to do is argue, you have nio interest in constructive discussion. Good bye.
Sorry gang, i don't suffer fools well.
Skip It doesn't matter, you are still not following the RULES, Skip. The RULES are VERY CLEAR: Quote:
The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself. It does not say the MOVIE in the THEATER. It says the DVD. You are free to keep it LOCAL, but you shouldn't submit because it is BAD DATA. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
It doesn't matter, you are still not following the RULES, Skip. The RULES are VERY CLEAR:
Quote:
The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.
It does not say the MOVIE in the THEATER. It says the DVD.
You are free to keep it LOCAL, but you shouldn't submit because it is BAD DATA. I know what you are trying to do but you are making a bad argument. If we follow your logic, we can't have SRP or release date or genre as none of those come from the DVD. In fact, we can't have any pre-release profiles at all.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
It doesn't matter, you are still not following the RULES, Skip. The RULES are VERY CLEAR:
Quote:
The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.
It does not say the MOVIE in the THEATER. It says the DVD.
You are free to keep it LOCAL, but you shouldn't submit because it is BAD DATA.
I know what you are trying to do but you are making a bad argument. If we follow your logic, we can't have SRP or release date or genre as none of those come from the DVD. In fact, we can't have any pre-release profiles at all. In fairness to Alien, that part of the rule does go on to say - Quote:
Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover. In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible. I'm not sure if "Skip's Notebook" counts as a 3rd party database or not  For SRP/release date/etc... I personally don't count sites such as Amazon as "third party database", more "e-store". For credits though, for pre-release profiles, no I don't think they should have cast/crew as it's not completely unheard of for them to correct mistakes in them between theatrical release & DVD release. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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