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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Bodi: Quote:
Quote:
As the person who sees 99% of the contributions around here, I can say for a fact that the majority of contributors realize and do submit partial contributions.
-Gerri
Absolutely...I do it all the time...I only have interest in the Director and principal actors and that is all I submit for cast and crew. I know this is a little late, but how do you contribute cast lists that are in order of appearance or alphabetical order? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I know this is a little late, but how do you contribute cast lists that are in order of appearance or alphabetical order? You do it the same way as any other method. As credited in the film and per Invelos rules. |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Quoting smeehrrr:
Quote:
In point of fact, and this was made very clear in this thread, the rules aren't really rules at all. They are simply a set of suggestions to ensure that your contribution is more likely to be accepted by the screeners than not. Calling them rules leads to this slavish obedience to the letter of the law over simple common sense and a desire to increase the value of the database. So, how about we go back to calling them guidelines, since that's what they really are? Failing that, how about a statement of intent at the beginning of the rules, sort of a preamble indicating the reasoning for having this document at all and what the ultimate goal is?
I couldn't agree more. It is my believe that with the current voting and reputation system every strange opinion would be "automatically" filtered out. The fact that the rules are to difficult to understand for most of the non-English speaking users is far greater than most of us think and only prevents that group from contributing. I also totally agree with that. | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Smee: IF the Ruesl are so hard for non-English speaking users to cope with then why is so many of them have such definitive ideas on the meaning and intent.  And NO they are NOT a set of suggestions, they are RULES and they MUST be followed to help prevent users from distorting the database as it once was, the real problem as I see it, is not that they object to the Rules, but they want to play the game from THEIR page instead of the Page that was chosen by Invelos and because of this they will do anything and everything to try and twist and distort them. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Bodi: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I know this is a little late, but how do you contribute cast lists that are in order of appearance or alphabetical order?
You do it the same way as any other method. As credited in the film and per Invelos rules. Maybe my question wasn't as clear as I had hoped as I do not understand your answer. You say you only contribute 'principal actors'. In a film that has the credits in alphabetical order, the principal actors...lets say there are 5...may be the 5th, 10th, 11th, 14th & 22nd in the list. Do you skip everyone else and only enter those 5? I know nothing I say will change the way you are doing it, I am just curious. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
| | Posted: | | | | Isn't is sad that some people think the ONLY reason that there is good data in the system is because of their anal retentive position that everyone must follow them to the letter, even if it makes no sense.
I think Ken's biggest mistake, was to publish the rules at the same time that other more effective means of validating the data was also put in place. (back at Intervocative)
Partial contributions, users allowed to vote on the contributions, contributions notes that every one can see, the ability to lock a particular data section, and now we also have a screener who participates in the forums (thank you Geri).
Who is truly naive enough to believe that the RULES are the ONLY thing stopping ping-ponging or the widespread corruption of data? | | | The Other DVD Forum
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tlevel: Quote:
Isn't is sad that some people think the ONLY reason that there is good data in the system is because of their anal retentive position that everyone must follow them to the letter, even if it makes no sense.
I think Ken's biggest mistake, was to publish the rules at the same time that other more effective means of validating the data was also put in place. (back at Intervocative)
Partial contributions, users allowed to vote on the contributions, contributions notes that every one can see, the ability to lock a particular data section, and now we also have a screener who participates in the forums (thank you Geri).
Who is truly naive enough to believe that the RULES are the ONLY thing stopping ping-ponging or the widespread corruption of data? Another very well-advised opinion... | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Neither of you understand, surfeur is that fior any of that to workk effectively there must be something upon which to base all of it. Those would be called Rules, they are the unifying structure thhat allows users to Vote based on something other than what THEY want. Gerri could not be anywhere near as effective as she is if she did not have something to base her comments on.
I know you want to use YOUR page, surfeur but, my friend that simply won't happen. You don't undertsand the whys and wherefores of why any of this was done despite repeated attempt to explain all of it and you won't let go despite the fact that when YOUR page comes up it gets buried everytime...not by me since I don't vote on these polls. I undserstand fully what you want to do and why, and it is perfectly reasonable but it does not belong in the Online , it belongs simply in your local database. But you have always brought it up every chance you get and i am sure you will persist. You can correct all the typos you want to locally, you can decide color is a typo if you wish to... locally.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 196 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
And NO they are NOT a set of suggestions, they are RULES and they MUST be followed to help prevent users from distorting the database as it once was Again, not true. The only thing that matters is the opinion of the screener. If Gerri wants to accept a contribution that violates the rules, that is her prerogative. It's already been made explicitly clear that her understanding of the rules differs from the understanding of some of the most vocal posters on the forums, and given this reality I don't understand why we pretend that these rules are sacrosanct. They are simply a tool to help the screeners ensure that the database improves, and as tlevel has already (very insightfully) pointed out, there are several other mechanisms in place to help Gerri make her decisions that are far more effective than the written rules. |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
IF the Ruesl are so hard for non-English speaking users to cope with then why is so many of them have such definitive ideas on the meaning and intent. Don't forget that only a tiny percentage of all DVDP users (and probably an even tinier percentage of DVDP users from non-English speaking countries) is writing in these forums. What you encounter here does not constitute a representative sample of the total user population in any way - quite the contrary, I would argue...  I still think many "foreign" users are having trouble understanding the full gist of the contribution rules and perhaps there's even more confusion on how to write contribution NOTES. I'm referring to cases such as this one and this one. Both cases involve relatively new users who are doing their best to contribute in agreement with the rules, but are having a hard time getting their contributions accepted because they don't know how to write contribution notes in English in such a way that the screeners can fully appreciate what they've done. And I'm sure that these few users, who were "brave" enough to come to the forums and ask, represent just a tip of the iceberg. THIS is the group of users I'm concerned about, because without some form of assistance or guidance they could easily get discouraged from contributing. And that may not make much difference to you in R1 US, but for many other (non-English speaking) localities it WILL make a difference. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | The thing I would like most is the rules to be changed back to guidelines and not just the ability to just vote no-neutral-yes, but a scale from 1 to 10 how much you rate a contribution with anything below 5 is considered "No", a 5 means "Neutral" and anything above 5 is considered "Yes". This way the screeners and other voters can make a better judgement of the quality of the contribution and the contributors can see how much they are appreciated. Of course it's true the database is owned by Invelos, but first and foremost it's made by users who are only willing to contribute if they have something to say and are being motivated. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
... You can correct all the typos you want to locally, you can decide color is a typo if you wish to... locally.
Skip Thanks for this very interesting post. Before it, I thought we were requested to contribute only personal preferences, and keep local what is done according to the rules... Things are much more clear now.. Thanks again... Really...  | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 404 |
| | Posted: | | | | I also think that they should go back to being guidelines. All the rules that are really needed is something like. Quote:
Take as much information from the DVD and front and rear covers as possible when contributing. Document any source/reason for any changes for everything else. How much simplier can it get. The other things that Ken already has in place will take care of any radical behaviour with the data. | | | The Other DVD Forum
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tlevel: Quote:
I also think that they should go back to being guidelines. All the rules that are really needed is something like.
Quote:
Take as much information from the DVD and front and rear covers as possible when contributing. Document any source/reason for any changes for everything else.
How much simplier can it get.
The other things that Ken already has in place will take care of any radical behaviour with the data. Agree with that  | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tlevel: Quote:
I also think that they should go back to being guidelines. All the rules that are really needed is something like.
Quote:
Take as much information from the DVD and front and rear covers as possible when contributing. Document any source/reason for any changes for everything else.
How much simplier can it get.
The other things that Ken already has in place will take care of any radical behaviour with the data. the problem is when you get almost the same information multiple places - and as soon as that happens everybodies opinion would be different and there would be ping ponging of profiles as person A thought the title should be this and person B took it from an alternative location and changed it. Ultimate flexibility would lead to ultimate chaos. And to a database which was constantly changing with the value of the data plunging. | | | | Paul |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
the problem is when you get almost the same information multiple places - and as soon as that happens everybodies opinion would be different and there would be ping ponging of profiles as person A thought the title should be this and person B took it from an alternative location and changed it.
Ultimate flexibility would lead to ultimate chaos. And to a database which was constantly changing with the value of the data plunging. Good analysis, Paul. This is PRECISELY why rules are needed and guidelines are risky. Silly or stupid as it may sound to reproduce EXACTLY what appears on screen (or on the box in the case of overviews), that is the only way to deal with data objectively. Anything else (e.g. correcting typos) is subjective and what I consider a typo you might not. Those people who argue that the rules are unnecessary obviously don't remember the "good" old days where profiles changed every couple of weeks because people interpreted data elements differently. Because of the large number of contributions the reviewers have to look at, it is easy for mistakes to get overlooked. I think this is the main reason why it looks to Smeehrrr that we're not following the rules -- because of things that fall through the cracks because of the volume of contributions. But that's no excuse to do away with the rules. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
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