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Game Consoles.....The good, the bad, and the ugly
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Penny Arcade on Lair:
Quote:
You couldn't pay us to play Lair any more than we have already. The game has given me a new respect for the professional reviewer, because when a game like Lair hits their desk, they have no recourse. They must tread, as Dante did, down that scarred staircase and into the greasy throat of hell.

The people behind the solid reinvention of Warhawk chose - in their kindness, and in their wisdom - to let the player decide if they want to wrangle their flight gameplay via Sixaxis or the analog sticks, a move that'll prove prescient. Controls aren't the only problem in Lair, though, so altering the controls wouldn't represent a complete solution. You're using those controls to accomplish frustrating, unimaginative, sometimes enigmatic tasks. People will forgive a good game its indulgences if they feel they're being met halfway, and one never gets that impression here.  You may find yourself in disbelief an hour into it, the Electronics Boutique receipt crumpled in your fist, trying to correlate Lair's non-stop torrent of anguish and your missing sixty bucks.

I would never ask you to take my word over your own experience, though, and you'll certainly find those online who will bolster you in your choice to purchase. There are some who derive a kind of perverse superiority from their mastery of the game's ambiguous mechanics.  For my part, I don't give a good ******* if someone has trained themselves to eat **** and like it. The game is not challenging, it's difficult to play, and it's taken many years but I'm ready to begin making this distinction.

This is an indictment of Lair, and not an indictment of the Playstation 3 as a platform like you might see burst online in some flammable thread. Playstation 3 owners will have plenty to crow about soon enough. Heavenly Sword, well... We'll talk about Heavenly Sword later. But Lair and Sony aren't synonyms, it isn't emblematic of your choice of console. It's just... bad, a raw-feeling launch title that even an additional year could not rescue.

We don't need Lair to be good, and so we don't need to make excuses for it. It has been extremely strange to watch the community react to reviews like the one at IGN, with claims that the site is "known" to be biased against the Playstation 3 - as though a site with IGN's expenses could afford to play such a dangerous game with one of the pillars of the medium. The reality is that IGN delivering a four-point-nine review of a title this anticipated is a sign of their allegiance to the reader. I'm not a fan of the site. IGN.com is not my homepage. But scoring a game this low, so at variance with their average numerics, is the sort of maneuver that should restore faith.


Gamespot gave it 4.5:
Quote:
You shouldn't play Lair. Not unless you have some morbid interest in experiencing what is quite possibly one of the worst control schemes ever devised. It's a shame because as a cinematic experience, it's stunning to watch. As a game, it's a nightmare and an embarrassment. It sounds like a fantastic idea: You fly around on a dragon, spewing fire and clawing at other reptiles while generally wreaking havoc. Too bad you're forced to use Sixaxis controls that destroy the possibility of fun and replace it with the constant need to scream expletives at your television screen.


But Asc says the controls are "spot on" because his 10 year old cousin can fly the dragon but every professional journalist in the games industry can't so its a SOLID GAME!!!!   

(cue his responses about War Hawk being a MUST BUY...)
 Last edited: by stefc
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
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Registered: May 19, 2007
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That's actually pretty disapointing to hear.  Lair was one of the main reasons I wanted a PS3.  I'm still going to buy it but....
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Its depressing, I really hope Heavenly Sword is good, because that's the only PS3 game I have any interest in for the rest of the year. The only reason I turn the machine on is to update the firmware and play PS2 games. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
Penny Arcade on Lair:
Quote:
You couldn't pay us to play Lair any more than we have already. The game has given me a new respect for the professional reviewer, because when a game like Lair hits their desk, they have no recourse. They must tread, as Dante did, down that scarred staircase and into the greasy throat of hell.

The people behind the solid reinvention of Warhawk chose - in their kindness, and in their wisdom - to let the player decide if they want to wrangle their flight gameplay via Sixaxis or the analog sticks, a move that'll prove prescient. Controls aren't the only problem in Lair, though, so altering the controls wouldn't represent a complete solution. You're using those controls to accomplish frustrating, unimaginative, sometimes enigmatic tasks. People will forgive a good game its indulgences if they feel they're being met halfway, and one never gets that impression here.  You may find yourself in disbelief an hour into it, the Electronics Boutique receipt crumpled in your fist, trying to correlate Lair's non-stop torrent of anguish and your missing sixty bucks.

I would never ask you to take my word over your own experience, though, and you'll certainly find those online who will bolster you in your choice to purchase. There are some who derive a kind of perverse superiority from their mastery of the game's ambiguous mechanics.  For my part, I don't give a good ******* if someone has trained themselves to eat **** and like it. The game is not challenging, it's difficult to play, and it's taken many years but I'm ready to begin making this distinction.

This is an indictment of Lair, and not an indictment of the Playstation 3 as a platform like you might see burst online in some flammable thread. Playstation 3 owners will have plenty to crow about soon enough. Heavenly Sword, well... We'll talk about Heavenly Sword later. But Lair and Sony aren't synonyms, it isn't emblematic of your choice of console. It's just... bad, a raw-feeling launch title that even an additional year could not rescue.

We don't need Lair to be good, and so we don't need to make excuses for it. It has been extremely strange to watch the community react to reviews like the one at IGN, with claims that the site is "known" to be biased against the Playstation 3 - as though a site with IGN's expenses could afford to play such a dangerous game with one of the pillars of the medium. The reality is that IGN delivering a four-point-nine review of a title this anticipated is a sign of their allegiance to the reader. I'm not a fan of the site. IGN.com is not my homepage. But scoring a game this low, so at variance with their average numerics, is the sort of maneuver that should restore faith.


Gamespot gave it 4.5:
Quote:
You shouldn't play Lair. Not unless you have some morbid interest in experiencing what is quite possibly one of the worst control schemes ever devised. It's a shame because as a cinematic experience, it's stunning to watch. As a game, it's a nightmare and an embarrassment. It sounds like a fantastic idea: You fly around on a dragon, spewing fire and clawing at other reptiles while generally wreaking havoc. Too bad you're forced to use Sixaxis controls that destroy the possibility of fun and replace it with the constant need to scream expletives at your television screen.


But Asc says the controls are "spot on" because his 10 year old cousin can fly the dragon but every professional journalist in the games industry can't so its a SOLID GAME!!!!   

(cue his responses about War Hawk being a MUST BUY...)

Still doing your parrot impression I see.  Just let someone know if you actually try the game out, ok?

If a 10 year old can handle it, I would guess an adult probably could.  Then, again, maybe not.  If you're not willing to use anything but an analog stick, then you won't like it.  Personally, I'm able to adapt.

I don't swing my arms around trying to use the motion controls.  It's a tilt control system...period.  I bet that's what they're doing. 
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
That's actually pretty disapointing to hear.  Lair was one of the main reasons I wanted a PS3.  I'm still going to buy it but....

A free thinker.  I like that.

Give it a go and let us know what you think.  Tell us if you think it "handles like a bus" or not. 
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Still doing your parrot impression I see.  Just let someone know if you actually try the game out, ok?


Still doing your retarded fanboy troll impression I see (you've got it down to a T by the way)...

Why would I try out a game that is universally panned across the board by every gaming journalist I read when there are a slew of other (well-reviewed) games to play? I guess the fact that I can choose from games across multiple competing platforms and am not desperate to buy every product released for one company's platform helps...
 Last edited: by stefc
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
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Registered: May 19, 2007
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No need to quote the entire message, kinda anoying.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
Registered: March 16, 2007
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So seriously, just about every site is bashing Lair, but you honestly think it is a good game??? 

Well I can't argue with that, there are plenty of movies that get bad critics reviews and I still enjoy them, but I can still see the technical flaws and still like a film, it is all about mindset.

Games however are a bit different.  I withhold judgement on the game until I get the opportunity to play it myself, but I don't delusion myself into believing that there isn't some form of truth to what the major game review sites are saying about the control mechanics of the game.

If A_S likes the game then so be it, however when he finishes his argument about a game and adds comments about Warhawk being better than HALO and HALO 2, he completely discredits himself and  the true SONY fanboy/Microsoft hater comes shining through!!!

So really, tells us the truth, you wanted Lair to be really good didn't you, just so SONY PS3 would have something go right just once since its launch!!!
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Let's put it this way...

There are many more people that own the game.  I read more than 10 to 15 (the number of people is growing all the time) of these people's impressions of Lair.  Not a one said the controls are slow to respond.  My experience mostly mirrors those people.  Have there been 10 to 15 negative reviews on Lair's controls?  So, you have one set of gamer experiences against another.

If one won't even take the small amount of time and money to rent it, I can only assume they are afraid to discover that it's, at least, decent.
To err is human...
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorNewEnglander
Registered: 11/13/2003
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IGN has just posted a video review of LAIR if anyone cares to check it out.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Thanks!  I just took a look at the video review.  I think the reviewer just pointed out the problem with how he uses the motion controls.  He said you end up moving your arms and wrists around and they get tired.  I mention something like this earlier.  Moving the controller around like that won't properly control the dragon.  If you can't properly use the controller (that controls the dragon)...you can't lock on to targets properly.  Your approach has something to do with that as well.  They have a ton of training areas to teach you how to properly move around with the motion controls.  Did they go through the training or just jumped in?  The answer to that question can severely change the outcome of one's experience with the game (especially if you haven't used the motion controls on any other game).

The advanced features have to be mastered, but just flying the dragon around is, IMO, simple and not sluggish for my system (kid tested and I have also).  I WISH they would have recorded his hand and arm jestures during play.  That's what's needed.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
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So are you now saying that the people at IGN, professionals who review games for a living, failed to do the training missions let alone read the manuals on how to fly the dragon, and that is the reason they gave the game such a horrible review.

Yes, it all makes sense now, the professional game critic recieved his brand new mint copy of Lair while sitting in his house.  He tore open the package with glee and excitement and tossed the manual aside.  He quickly loaded the game into his PS3 and proceeded to play, skipping all the training sections, and moved right into gameplay.  30 minutes later, in complete disgust, he quit the game and sat at his laptop and gave Lair a lowly 4.5 rating!!!

You know A_S, he should've called you, you could've walked him through how to play the properly!!!

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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
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Hey, it can happen!
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
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Gametrailers give Lair yet another complete drubbing, some of those bugs and sequences in that video are hysterically bad. Amazing considering the money put into the project and that its gone almost a year over schedule.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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I just found out the same thing happened with Super Rub-a-Dub (a PSN game...completely motion controlled).  That was a $5 game (really fun, too).  So, that seems to be the issue with the reviewers.  They don't understand that you have to learn how to master the control system (just like the move from the 8-bit Nintendo's D-pad to the analog stick).

I'm typing from the PS3 so I can't provide links.  Google the reviews.

I'm not saying Lair is perfect.  I know that is what some people are reading into my posts about it.  It has it's flaws.  I am saying it is a solid game (maybe a 7.8 or 8).

BTW, Calidian, what's the difference between a pofessional reviewer and a gamer that gives his opinion?

Answer: A paycheck.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
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