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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGrendell
One disc at a time...
Registered: May 8, 2007
United States Posts: 823
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Quoting Early Memphis:
Quote:

JMGuer : For a guy who "Don't konow or care....no horse in this race", you sure have jumped all over this. What is that now … 5-6 posts? All the while ignoring my careful explanation of the law, or, if you prefer, the legal loophole which leaves a gray area which makes these … I don't know, what's the word … oh yeah, LEGAL! Tell ya what, instead of this cause celeb BS, why don't you call Sony up and tell them all about it - I'm sure they and their army of lawyers have never heard about this DVD; and then you can call Amazon and get them to root out this den of thieves - but, oh, it would have to be illegal.

See, if Sony did re-release this here (and, uh, HBO would have a say as well, counselor), they might have a leg to stand on because they'd be enforcing their rights by acting on them. One of the chief reasons that so many of the early boots came out of Luxembourg and Italy and other bastions of freedom of expression was because the laws in those countries came closer to my beliefs than our laws do - specifically, concerning the premise that if you don't use it, you lose it. In other words, copyright could and should be used to protect economic rights, but not to suppress artistic product which existed in the public domain - and which people wanted. It's also one of the reasons that many places in the world don't extend copyright protection for as long as we do here - with the result that more things stay in print overseas. Maybe you should go chase an ambulance along with those idiot posters on Amazon. Do you really believe that no-one has ever brought this to Amazon's attention? 

Oh, and by the way, they speak Portuguese in Portugal. Perhaps you've heard of it? It's a little European country which borders Spain? Officially, and legally, it's called the Portuguese Republic - and their official language is the Portuguese Language. Like I said, call the cops. This crime must be at least as big as … oh say, the Lindbergh kidnapping? I'm sure they'll get right on it - and maybe Sony will throw in some officially legal Bob Dylan CDs for ya. 


Most people here are not really for your beliefs, they tend to side heavily with the big corporations and support them quite blindly. You basically just ostracized yourself here by posting the above. Many people here likely have you labeled as a pirate now.
99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1."
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
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@Early Memphis

For a guy who "Don't konow or care....no horse in this race",

That's right. I don't care if it gets entered into the main db or not, doesn't change the fact that (in most peoples eyes, if not yours) it's an unofficial pirate release.


Oh, and by the way, they speak Portuguese in Portugal. Perhaps you've heard of it?

You don't say. My statement was an obvious reference to an earlier post about Brazilian (not Portuguese)  bootlegs, no surprise you didn't get it.

Rest of your post....(yawn) yeah, whatever.
 Last edited: by JMGuer
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorateo357
Registered: December 27, 2009
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,131
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Quoting JMGuer:
Quote:
@Early Memphis

For a guy who "Don't konow or care....no horse in this race",

That's right. I don't care if it gets entered into the main db or not, doesn't change the fact that (in most peoples eyes, if not yours) it's an unofficial pirate release.


Oh, and by the way, they speak Portuguese in Portugal. Perhaps you've heard of it?

You don't say. My statement was an obvious reference to an earlier post about Brazilian (not Portuguese)  bootlegs, no surprise you didn't get it.

Rest of your post....(yawn) yeah, whatever.



I guess he didn't notice the flag your flying.
For being a Bob Dylan fan, he has no problem taking money out of Bob's pocket by purchasing product that is not authorized.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantEarly Memphis
Registered: February 12, 2014
United States Posts: 57
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A pirate!?! Me! I buy everything I can get legally. I just bought Bob Dylan's "The Complete Album Collection V.1", even though I have almost everything in it already (including about 15 of Sony's SACD Hybrids) - just to see if the newly Remastered CDs are any better. Beside, anyone who actually read what I said understands that what I'm talking about is unreleased tracks. A pirate steals released material and sells crap versions of it. They oughta be shot. Only people who can't read would call me a pirate. Gimmie a break! 

For anyone who cares, here's an interesting BBC piece which explains how Bob and The Fabs and others are trying to extend their copyright protections "under the radar".

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-25413838

It wasn't enough that they used their money and their lawyers to get expiring copyright protections extended last year, now they're (in some cases) surreptitiously releasing unreleased material digitally and then pulling it back because of the "use it or lose it" provisions of EU copyright law. It's a good read. Check it out and see if you still "side heavily with the big corporations". 

Grendell : Can't tell which side you're on - maybe that was the point? 

JM : Still stickin' it to me, eh? *shrug* (they need a shrug Smiley here). You're right, I didn't "get" your comment - because you're from Portugal, right? And yes, I knew that Glass Music was from Brazil. 
 Last edited: by Early Memphis
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,851
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Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
For being a Bob Dylan fan, he has no problem taking money out of Bob's pocket by purchasing product that is not authorized.

Not to condone piracy, but acquiring goods that are not available through "official" channels takes no money out of anyone's pockets.  An authorized, official release would have to be available for that to be possible.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
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Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
For being a Bob Dylan fan, he has no problem taking money out of Bob's pocket by purchasing product that is not authorized.

Not to condone piracy, but acquiring goods that are not available through "official" channels takes no money out of anyone's pockets.  An authorized, official release would have to be available for that to be possible.

---------------


Agree 100 %
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
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Quoting Early Memphis:
Quote:
 


JM : Still stickin' it to me, eh? *shrug* (they need a shrug Smiley here). You're right, I didn't "get" your comment - because you're from Portugal, right? And yes, I knew that Glass Music was from Brazil. 



oh boy...

you're the one that said....

(this DVD is sold as a Portuguese import by Amazon and several marketplace sellers). Amazon also lists and sells other versions of this movie (I believe all are Portuguese at present)

My earlier post mentioned that these were Brazilian bootlegs

(see Spot run)

Thus : FYI, Portuguese is the language of Brazil.

(run Spot run)

These DVDs are as Portuguese as a Ford car is English, not American.

Still Sticking to you? God forbid, just posting a reply to your post addressed to me




edit :

For your information (don't know why I bother): I am not for or against bootlegs/unofficial releases.
I have been a Bob Dylan fan and collector since 1965. I have more Bob Dylan LPs, CDs, cassettes, 8-tracks, open reel tapes, Laserdiscs, DVDs...than you can ever imagine...both official and unofficial (bootlegs).

I used to be a contributor to the Dylan site Searching for  Gem, but I stopped contributing around 2008, but you can still see my contributions all over the place. Expecting Rain still has a Dylan discography I compiled up.

None of the above means diddly squat, other than to state I am not against bootleg/unofficial material....I have tons of it. But I do know what an official release is, and what an unofficial release is.

A pirate copy of say Blood on the Tracks may be perfectly "legal" for sale in street markets in Iraq...but it still is what it is: unauthorized pirate.

For the record: I won't be voting "no" on your submission.
 Last edited: by JMGuer
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantEarly Memphis
Registered: February 12, 2014
United States Posts: 57
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Quoting JMGuer:
Quote:
... oh boy...
you're the one that said....

(this DVD is sold as a Portuguese import by Amazon and several marketplace sellers). Amazon also lists and sells other versions of this movie (I believe all are Portuguese at present)

My earlier post mentioned that these were Brazilian bootlegs
For your information (don't know why I bother): I am not for or against bootlegs/unofficial releases.
I have been a Bob Dylan fan and collector since 1965. I have more Bob Dylan LPs, CDs, cassettes, 8-tracks, open reel tapes, Laserdiscs, DVDs...than you can ever imagine...both official and unofficial (bootlegs).

I used to be a contributor to the Dylan site Searching for a Gem, but I stopped contributing around 2008, but you can still see my contributions all over the place. Expecting Rain still has a Dylan discography I compiled up.

None of the above means diddly squat, other than to state I am not against bootleg/unofficial material....I have tons of it. But I do know what an official release is, and what an unofficial release is.

A pirate copy of say Blood on the Tracks may be perfectly "legal" for sale in street markets in Iraq...but it still is what it is: unauthorized pirate ...


Absolutely, I misspoke. I kinda felt like I was under fire there and I was tryin' to gather info to back up a coherent argument about why this wasn't a bootleg while meeting my other obligations - and I misspoke about where it came from. I have spent all day entering Beatle BDs  from AMS : Archive Master Series. Now those are bootlegs, not imports, no gray area - "print 'em and get 'em outta here before the man finds out" bootlegs. Illegal - but all of stuff Apple could sell and I'd buy. Hell, I paid $50 for one of these Beatle Promo BD's. I'd much rather pay Apple if they'd let me - and I'll buy 'em in a heartbeat if they release 'em - but I won't wait another 20 years so that I'm dead, deaf and/or blind before enjoying things I've waited 50 years for. Hell No!

And yes, I agree, a pirate copy of Blood On The Tracks is an illegal pirate copy - in China, Iraq, Paris or New York - but not a copy of all the extra, unreleased tracks and the first, cancelled version.  But that's where Dylan is smart. His people have been scouring the planet for the best versions of all of those tracks and will be releasing them via his bootleg series. Is it rolling, Bob? Yes!  Whereas Apple continues to be stupid.  The Beatle Archives iTunes release that I posted that link about earlier has already been bootlegged (wow, so that's a hybrid - a pirated bootleg  )! I kept researching and found places selling it on CDs and records - with extra tracks - all because Apple wanted to be cute instead of just releasing their own Bootleg Series CD (and they missed the best thing from that first session, imho, Takes 2-6 of Misery). 

Anyway, I don't like to fight and argue, pardner. I'm sorry for whatever I could've done better or differently to avoid crossing swords with you. Hopefully we can move on as friends or at least as fellow Dylan fans. 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Early Memphis:
Quote:
Grendell : Can't tell which side you're on - maybe that was the point? 

Really?  I would have thought his "and support them quite blindly" comment made it quite clear. 

That being said, I think you will find that most of the people here, including the owner of this site, fall on the opposite side of the fence as you do.  So much so that discussion promoting DVD or CD piracy is a bannable offense. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantEarly Memphis
Registered: February 12, 2014
United States Posts: 57
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Thanks for the heads up, but ... what discussion ...? Isn't this thread closed yet?  
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
I see better with 'em on
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Canada Posts: 1,272
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Quoting Early Memphis:
Quote:
Thanks for the heads up, but ... what discussion ...? Isn't this thread closed yet?  


The lord has spoken!  It's funny, I think he fails to see the irony that he acts like his av.

You are definitely NOT a pirate. Anyone that accuses you of such is just being silly.  While I can understand those that don't like you supporting "pirates" I can understand why you'd by discs unavailable elsewhere.  I personally wouldn't buy those items (I'd download them for free!!!    )

The rules, and attitude of the forums, suck.  Plain and simple. The customer service sucks.  Ken has stated that answering valid questions about the rules is beneath him, he has better things to do with his time.  What those things are?  Who knows.. he mentioned that DVD Profiler Online Plus was coming years ago, and we never heard a peep since.  I guess the DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-ray Collection Software game is top secret, no reason to share and discuss possible upgrades with the community that populates his database that makes his program(s).
HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U  AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors  Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free)  HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,851
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Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
Ken... mentioned that DVD Profiler Online Plus was coming years ago, and we never heard a peep since.

That's hardly fair.  We were given our last tease only nine months ago.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDraxen
I see shiny discs...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 681
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Quoting JMGuer:
Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
For being a Bob Dylan fan, he has no problem taking money out of Bob's pocket by purchasing product that is not authorized.

Not to condone piracy, but acquiring goods that are not available through "official" channels takes no money out of anyone's pockets.  An authorized, official release would have to be available for that to be possible.

---------------


Agree 100 %


And I would put it this way: acquiring goods that are not available, AND LIKELY WON'T BE, through "official" channels takes no money out of anyone's pockets. Blanket statements that "if it's not released, it's free game" do not *always* apply. Game of Thrones S4 starts in a month. After the first episode, the good old internet is packed with pirate copies for everyone to download. Yes, there are no official releases to purchase it at that moment in every corner of the World, but everyone knows there will be within a year.

Piracy is piracy. Nobody knows what "official" parties will publish in the future. I've downloaded stuff from Youtube that are not a-ok copyright wise, but I'm not sugarcoating my doings either.
Mika
I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJMGuer
Registered: June 1, 2013
Portugal Posts: 217
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Quoting Draxen:
Quote:
Quoting JMGuer:
Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
For being a Bob Dylan fan, he has no problem taking money out of Bob's pocket by purchasing product that is not authorized.

Not to condone piracy, but acquiring goods that are not available through "official" channels takes no money out of anyone's pockets.  An authorized, official release would have to be available for that to be possible.

---------------


Agree 100 %


And I would put it this way: acquiring goods that are not available, AND LIKELY WON'T BE, through "official" channels takes no money out of anyone's pockets. Blanket statements that "if it's not released, it's free game" do not *always* apply. Game of Thrones S4 starts in a month. After the first episode, the good old internet is packed with pirate copies for everyone to download. Yes, there are no official releases to purchase it at that moment in every corner of the World, but everyone knows there will be within a year.

Piracy is piracy. Nobody knows what "official" parties will publish in the future. I've downloaded stuff from Youtube that are not a-ok copyright wise, but I'm not sugarcoating my doings either.




Thousands of concerts are taped by fans and traded/sold as bootlegs that will never be released officially because they were not taped professionally-takes no money out of the artists pockets. Some artists (eg: Grateful Dead) even encouraged fans to tape the shows.
Many historic recordings of opera singers and jazz musicians exist today only because fans taped those shows in the 1930s - 1950s.

Bootlegs of rejected unreleased studio outtakes also takes no money out of artists hands. If the artist/record company decides, 10 - 20 years later to officially release these outtakes, then they would no longer be bootlegs, but pirates- that takes money out of the artists hands. In any case, once officially released, the bootleg version would cease to have any 'value', as most fans would be buying the official release. Only the hardcore fans of the artist would have bought the bootleg in the first place.

I have no stance, pro or con on bootlegs...I freely admit I have bought tons. Pirates (copies of official releases) I have never bought, even if the original is out of print/rare...for no other reason than that as a collector I want the original, official thing.

Don't know anything about games or downloading from from youtube (I don't download anything...again, only because as a collector I want the original). What I was agreeing to was in reference to bootleg music.

I'm not sugarcoating anything either. Bootlegs by defination: make, distribute or sell illicit goods


edit

"Piracy is piracy".

Not talking about piracy. Big difference between bootleged music (live audience recordings, rejected outtakes = not commercially available for sale) and music (or film) piracy


Bootlegs vs. Pirated Music

Record companies/artists, in general turn a blind eye to bootlegs.
There's a website that any Dyla fan will know called Expecting Rain. They have been around since 1994. In it you can find thousands of Bob Dylan bootleg records/shows. Members upload and freely trade these bootlegs. The site does not tolerate the posting of any pirated (official) music. Bootlegs, yeah, upload/post/ download to your heart's content. I hardly visit the site anymore, and personally don't download anything....I prefer to buy hard copies, and have no interest in computer files (MP3s or flacs).

I have it on good authority (webmaster of another Dylan site who knows someone connected to Columbia/Sony, and the Dylan office) that Sony/ Dylan's office are well aware of Expecting Rain and the bootlegs...and don't really care. 20 years later, ER is still up and running.

Its not some fan taping a live show and trading his tapes for free with other Dylan fans, or a bootlegger turning his tape of the same show into a glass mastered CD and selling 100 copies to hard core fans that Sony worries about. This stuff is not commercially available.

What hurts Sony and every other record (and film) company is piracy: the illegal downloading of commercially available recorded material in the hundreds of thousands.
 Last edited: by JMGuer
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDoubleDownAgain
I see better with 'em on
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Canada Posts: 1,272
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Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
Ken... mentioned that DVD Profiler Online Plus was coming years ago, and we never heard a peep since.

That's hardly fair.  We were given our last tease only nine months ago.

---------------


Not sure if you are being sarcastic? 

But he first mentioned DPO plus in a post from over FIVE YEARS AGO!

And he did mention it last year, but since then?  Nothing.
HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U  AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors  Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free)  HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server
 Last edited: by DoubleDownAgain
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,851
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Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
And he did mention it last year, but since then?  Nothing.

If he said "it's coming" too often you'd soon lose your anticipation and begin to doubt.

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