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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Supervising Producer |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
And why do we shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer, or "Created By" into OCB or "Story By" into OMB?
You either enter only what is listed in the table or you have opened Pandora's Box. There's no way to open it half way. You guys really need to stop with this 'we' stuff. WE do not shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer. WE do not shoehorn "Created By" into OCB. Some people do, that is clear, but that doesn't make it right. Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." If there is a screenwriter credit, in addition to the story by credit, it meets the criteria for OMB. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
James, how does the average user know that there is an error in the Rules for Art Director? The fact that Art Director is a role in the program would be their first clue. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
How come Theme By and Created By are OK based on previous discussions. Theme By is restricted from use because the notes say to include the composer of the film's original score. Themes aren't scores. Created By goes under OMB. OMB has no role restrictions. Created By is a writing credit for production of material which precedes the script as negotiated by the Writer's Guild. Quote:
There is no entry in the list for "Based on a Book By", or "Lyrics By" and all the rest that I listed previously.
If we're going to follow the letter of the Rules as you suggest, then we have to do it for every credit.
See my post above and let me know which roles I've listed you support entering. Those roles are included either in the chart, the chart notes, or the program. This is not true for Supervising Producer or "every credit". Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Theme By and the Composer of the film's acore are not equal jobs in my book!
Who is the arbiter of what "equal roles" are? That path leads to the dark side!!!!!  You say Theme By and Composer are not equal jobs and since Theme By isn't in the chart, it should not be included. I say Supervising Producer and (is it Producer or Executive Producer?? How to know which?) are not equal jos and since Supervising Producer isn't in the chart, it should not be included. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
You either enter only what is listed in the table or you have opened Pandora's Box. There's no way to open it half way. You have to read all parts of the chart. There are some contradictions and ambiguities, but I don't see any door so wide as to shoehorn Supervising Producer into either Executive Producer or Producer. There's no basis in the chart or the program or the forum or anything Ken and Gerri have ever said, to my knowledge, that directs us to include Supervising Producer as either Executive Producer or Producer. If you open the door to Supervising Producer as one of these (which do you advocate?), you must include Co-Producer, Line Producer and Production Manager as Producers and Executive in Charge of Production and Co-Executive Producer as Executive Producer. And more roles that are not coming to mind, I'm sure. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
And why do we shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer, or "Created By" into OCB or "Story By" into OMB?
You either enter only what is listed in the table or you have opened Pandora's Box. There's no way to open it half way.
You guys really need to stop with this 'we' stuff. WE do not shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer. WE do not shoehorn "Created By" into OCB. Some people do, that is clear, but that doesn't make it right.
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." If there is a screenwriter credit, in addition to the story by credit, it meets the criteria for OMB. If you voted on contributions regularly, you would see these all the time. Those are the "we" that I am referring to. What is even more discouraging is that they are being approved by the screeners as well. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." Notes do not matter according to the argument being made by some in this thread. If they are not in the "Credited As" column (according to the Rules) then they are not allowed. That is what the Rules actually say. The Rules say nothing about "except if the Notes contradicts this". | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 | | Posts: 389 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with hal9g & 8ballMax on this. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I always include Supervising Producers. Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
I agree that Supervising Producer gets a Producer credit. Also, if later on Supervising Producer gets put on the producer list we all have to go back through our contributions and redo them anyway. | | | | Last edited: by Orici |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
What thousands of users? I see a few in this thread that support your position, and just as many that do not. Where do you get this 'thousands' number?  Look up any supervising producer's name in the CLT. Better yet: look up a hundred. And hey presto: there's your answer. Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
There you go again. Making blanket statements that simply are not true. You enter them under OCB, I do not. All that thread proves is that you decided to enter unsupported credits into Profiler. It turned into a 'feature request' for a 'created by' credit...which kinda proves there wasn't a "concensus about this for years."  This consensus was reached back at Intervocative, and if you'd bother to actually read the thread I linked to, you'd have found that Skip's comments there confirm that. I really don't feel like digging up the old thread at the Intervocative forums - you'll have to do that yourself. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
|  | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
And why do we shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer, or "Created By" into OCB or "Story By" into OMB?
You either enter only what is listed in the table or you have opened Pandora's Box. There's no way to open it half way.
You guys really need to stop with this 'we' stuff. WE do not shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer. WE do not shoehorn "Created By" into OCB. Some people do, that is clear, but that doesn't make it right.
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." If there is a screenwriter credit, in addition to the story by credit, it meets the criteria for OMB.
If you voted on contributions regularly, you would see these all the time. Those are the "we" that I am referring to.
What is even more discouraging is that they are being approved by the screeners as well. Are they being approved by screeners?! All the time? Could this be an indication that you are wrong?!  | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! | | | | Last edited: by Berak |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hal, wrong? Surely you jest, Berak, Hal can't be wrong. Theme by has been approved for Three YERARS for MANY titles and continues to be approved to this day. But Hal can't be wrong. That's impossible....NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium."
Notes do not matter according to the argument being made by some in this thread. If they are not in the "Credited As" column (according to the Rules) then they are not allowed.
That is what the Rules actually say. The Rules say nothing about "except if the Notes contradicts this". OK. If you don't want to take that rule as strictly as others do, how do you reconcile all of the chart items together? There's nothing in the rules that say to ignore parts of the chart. How do you justify excluding Theme By while including Supervising Producer? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
And why do we shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer, or "Created By" into OCB or "Story By" into OMB?
You either enter only what is listed in the table or you have opened Pandora's Box. There's no way to open it half way.
You guys really need to stop with this 'we' stuff. WE do not shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer. WE do not shoehorn "Created By" into OCB. Some people do, that is clear, but that doesn't make it right.
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." If there is a screenwriter credit, in addition to the story by credit, it meets the criteria for OMB.
If you voted on contributions regularly, you would see these all the time. Those are the "we" that I am referring to.
What is even more discouraging is that they are being approved by the screeners as well.
Are they being approved by screeners?! All the time?
Could this be an indication that you are wrong?! No, it is an indication that the screeners do not have time to check every contribution to make sure that people are not contributing erroneous information. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Hal, wrong? Surely you jest, Berak, Hal can't be wrong. Theme by has been approved for Three YERARS for MANY titles and continues to be approved to this day. But Hal can't be wrong. That's impossible....NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Skip Approved or not, it is not supported by the Rules as they are written today. This has nothing to do with anyone being right or wrong, only with what the Rules actually say. But your sarcasm is duly noted, Skip! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." If there is a screenwriter credit, in addition to the story by credit, it meets the criteria for OMB. Actually, it is shoe-horning based on real world usage of the "Story by" credit. As I discussed in another thread, the "Story by" credit is not used for original material, but part of the movie-making process (as much as building sets and casting actors are). The screenplay process is as follows Adapted: Book/magazine/news (OMB) -> Adaptation/development in prose form (Story by or Adaptation by) -> Script (Screenwriter) Original: Treatment and development in prose form (Story by) -> Script (Screenwriter) And anyone who would earn both a "Story by" and a "Screenwriter" credit would be credited solely as "Writer". "Story by" is an optional step that may or may not appear in the flowchart. That's how it works in real life. But not just with writing credits, but also, music as well as other professional areas. And now for my rant on credits in general (which has nothing to with Unicus's post and does not condone violating our current rules)I still think we (and by "we" I mean the DVD Profiler program) need to be using the guilds, who have developed the modern credit system for each profession, as the basis for credits in DVDP, determine which ones are relevant enough to be included and which ones should be excluded, and only have exceptions for movies that don't fit into the guild criteria (even for films that aren't within the guilds mostly use proper guild credit roles anyway, so those roles would already be included). It is the simplest way to make it work without argument. Instead, it seems that which credits that are included in the program have been cherry-picked, leaving out some that are actually more important in the real-world credits hierarchy, and that's why we have these problems. | | | | Last edited: by nolesrule |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium."
Notes do not matter according to the argument being made by some in this thread. If they are not in the "Credited As" column (according to the Rules) then they are not allowed.
That is what the Rules actually say. The Rules say nothing about "except if the Notes contradicts this".
OK. If you don't want to take that rule as strictly as others do, how do you reconcile all of the chart items together? There's nothing in the rules that say to ignore parts of the chart. How do you justify excluding Theme By while including Supervising Producer? It's pretty simple. A Supervising Producer is a Producer and falls in between a Producer (permissible credit) and Executive Producer (permissible credit). Co-producers are expressly forbidden. Line Producers and Associate Producers are clearly a lower level positions than Producer. Theme By is not mentioned at all, anywhere, in any form. Am I rationalizing....you bet. Just like people who rationalize that Theme By is the same as Composer (the person who wrote the film's score). | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
It's pretty simple. A Supervising Producer is a Producer and falls in between a Producer (permissible credit) and Executive Producer (permissible credit).
Co-producers are expressly forbidden. Line Producers and Associate Producers are clearly a lower level positions than Producer.
How about Co-executive Producers? They would be between Producers and Excutive Producers too.  | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
You have to read all parts of the chart. But that's not what the Rules say: Quoting the Rules: Quote:
For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Film Credits to Include" column. If someone is not credited with one of these roles, do not include them in the Crew section. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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