Quoting DariusKyrak:

Quote:
...Fact 5: In French (and other languages), FRANCOIS can be transformed into either Francois or François, but the commonly accepted transformation would be François. ...

a transformation is not commonly accepted: If the name is
- Francois it stays Francois
- François it stays François
declaring that FRANCOIS becomes François is not done, you could research the name and try to document this for each person. The name could either be written Francois or François same goes for other names. RENEE, NOEL, ...

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Wrong on all counts Darius. Which is precisely why I refuse to play anymore.

Skip

Look Skip,

Discussions do not work by simply declaring the other person wrong and saying that people who don't agree with you don't comprehend. It certainly irritates ME to constantly read how I'm incapable of understanding you all of the time when I think I understand you fine, I just don't agree. I've tried to give you as clear and precise a state of play as I can to make a productive discussion as easy as possible and I've tried to do so as nicely as I can, and I don't appreciate simply being told that I'm "wrong on all counts".

I am not "wrong on all counts". I gave you a list of facts to dispute, you disputed none of them. You added a load of opinions, and nothing more. This is not a big problem, and we are certainly not bringing about the end of the world.

If you've got a point to make, then make it... and I don't mean state your decision as though the mere action of stating it makes it so. Make an argument based on reasons. If you think something is against / supports the rules, say why. If you have an opinion about why something should be done, then present that opinion (and don't pretend that it's anything but an opinion).

If you don't want to do that, fine, but do you have to whine and moan about it all of the time, they say we don't 'comprehend' and go off in a huff? There is a legitimate point being made, which is why it keeps coming up again and again. Until it's resolved, it's going to keep coming up. If you want to help solve it, then add to the DISCUSSION, if not, can you please try and show some restraint?

Stuart 

Quoting kdh1949:

Quote:
...  It is not trying to impose cultural bias on the universe by attempting to spell a French name AS a French name.
...

Of course you are right, and this has also an importance when you pronounce those names. Francois would be "frankoa" (From country Frank ??? ) , and François is "franssoa", from country France.

Everywhere in the world, I think it is better to try to pronounce the names in the correct form, which often need to investigate more than only read  (for example "Sean (Shon) Connery" and not "Sean (Seen) Connery". But if people do not use the right spelling, I fear they'll have few chances to pronounce the correct way.

Quoting DariusKyrak:

Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Wrong on all counts Darius. Which is precisely why I refuse to play anymore.

Skip

Look Skip,

Discussions do not work by simply declaring the other person wrong and saying that people who don't agree with you don't comprehend. It certainly irritates ME to constantly read how I'm incapable of understanding you all of the time when I think I understand you fine, I just don't agree. I've tried to give you as clear and precise a state of play as I can to make a productive discussion as easy as possible and I've tried to do so as nicely as I can, and I don't appreciate simply being told that I'm "wrong on all counts".

I am not "wrong on all counts". I gave you a list of facts to dispute, you disputed none of them. You added a load of opinions, and nothing more. This is not a big problem, and we are certainly not bringing about the end of the world.

If you've got a point to make, then make it... and I don't mean state your decision as though the mere action of stating it makes it so. Make an argument based on reasons. If you think something is against / supports the rules, say why. If you have an opinion about why something should be done, then present that opinion (and don't pretend that it's anything but an opinion).

If you don't want to do that, fine, but do you have to whine and moan about it all of the time, they say we don't 'comprehend' and go off in a huff? There is a legitimate point being made, which is why it keeps coming up again and again. Until it's resolved, it's going to keep coming up. If you want to help solve it, then add to the DISCUSSION, if not, can you please try and show some restraint?

Stuart 

Lok Stuart. You are not demonstrating that you have any comprehension of anything I have said, you are talking at me and I won't play. When you understand what i have said get back to me. Right now you are pretty much mimicking what others have already said,, while ignoring everything I have said, I have addressed every concern AND explained and also explained how you can achieve what you want.

I see a lack of understanding from Yves as well , his comment is simply ridiculous on its face.

Skip

Quoting EnryWiki:

Quote:
Again, we do not enter ON SCREEN data if it is ALL CAPS. We translate it to its equivalent form, using standard capitalization rules.

I think the big question is do we use standard capitalisation rules of the nationality of the actor, of the CoO of the film, of the locality of the DVD or US english (the nationality of the program)?
I think using the locality of the DVD is out - we would end up with a situation where the same actor in the same film could end up with a different name.
Nor do I like the idea of standardising using US english - that would mean profiles for films that were never made for a US market, and have possibly never even had a US release would have to follow these rules.
I also think using the CoO of the film could cause problems as, as an example, you could end up with François Truffaut being credited as Francois Truffaut in Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind.
That leaves using the nationality of the person involved to try and work out standard capitalisation rules. Which is probably the way most people have been doing it anyway.
Of course there will be situations where you will be unfamiliar with a person's nationality and I think that's ok - we can only contribute what we believe to be right. If someone comes along and corrects it later, that's fine. If all profiles were expected to be 100% from the start, we'd have no need for voting or submissions or these forums!

As far as I understand this only affects French people credited in all capitals, right? I can't think of any other language that removes accents from capital letters - can anyone else?

Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:

Quote:
Again, we do not enter ON SCREEN data if it is ALL CAPS. We translate it to its equivalent form, using standard capitalization rules.

I think the big question is do we use standard capitalisation rules of the nationality of the actor, of the CoO of the film, of the locality of the DVD or US english (the nationality of the program)?
I think using the locality of the DVD is out - we would end up with a situation where the same actor in the same film could end up with a different name.
Nor do I like the idea of standardising using US english - that would mean profiles for films that were never made for a US market, and have possibly never even had a US release would have to follow these rules.
I also think using the CoO of the film could cause problems as, as an example, you could end up with François Truffaut being credited as Francois Truffaut in Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind.
That leaves using the nationality of the person involved to try and work out standard capitalisation rules. Which is probably the way most people have been doing it anyway.
Of course there will be situations where you will be unfamiliar with a person's nationality and I think that's ok - we can only contribute what we believe to be right. If someone comes along and corrects it later, that's fine. If all profiles were expected to be 100% from the start, we'd have no need for voting or submissions or these forums!

Nicely put. I agree on all counts.

Quote:
As far as I understand this only affects French people credited in all capitals, right? I can't think of any other language that removes accents from capital letters - can anyone else?

I think the cedilla (the hook under the letter "c" ) can be found in other languages as well, including Spanish and Portuguese. I don't how they represent it in ALL CAPS, though.

Quoting http://mediasrv.ns.ac.yu/unicode/www.unicode.org/glossary/index.htm :

Quote:
Cedilla. A mark originally placed beneath the letter c in French, Portuguese, and Spanish to indicate that the letter is to be pronounced as an s, as in façade. Obsolete Spanish diminutive of ceda, the letter z.

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
You kand others keep talking about some sort of standard. And you want it based on CULTURE, why is it so hard to grasp that the system was setup without regard to ANY culture. The culktureis the data ON SCREEN PERIOD, that was how it was designed...very deliberately. As i said when i am working on a French film you don't hear me whining about the diacriticals not conforming to a supposed US standard and you never will, because I enter the data the way it supposed to be exactly as it appears On Screen with no added or subtracted data that appears or not..

You keep accusing me of applying a cultural standard and the only standard is that of the credits regardles of locale. See the data and enter it as you see it. All this nationalistic stuff is just noise.

Skip

Because what you're talking about doesn't exist. C -> c and only c is not true from a culturally independent perspective. It IS correct from an English language perspective. Why are YOU finding THAT so hard to grasp? If you think that C -> c and only c is culturally independent, then you are wrong.

Stuart

Quoting surfeur51:

Quote:

I think it is the same in all countries that use specific characters.

No, it is not.

In Finnish language we have characters å, ä and ö. Their uppercase representations have always been Å, Ä and Ö.