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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Blade | Registered: Oct 16, 2005 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 72 |
| Posted: | | | | At the risk of getting this thread back on topic , doesn't the country of origin have relevance as to what copyright laws are used? The reason I ask is that, if this is the case, at the end of the credits on most productions, there is a small section of text that states something along the lines of 'This motion picture is protected by the laws of < Insert Country Here> and other countries'. Is it possible to use this as a guideline for C of O? | | | Gavin.
"He looked bigger when I couldn't see him!": Jayne Cobb, Firefly "You know, maybe it's 'cause of all the horrific things we've seen, but hippos wearing tutus just don't unnerve me like they used to.": Oz, Buffy the Vampire Slayer |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 775 |
| Posted: | | | | Not necessarily. I've noticed on a few Disney movies that such a sentence mentions the UK for some reason or other, and I only buy R1 Disney discs. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,694 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Blade: Quote: At the risk of getting this thread back on topic , doesn't the country of origin have relevance as to what copyright laws are used?
The reason I ask is that, if this is the case, at the end of the credits on most productions, there is a small section of text that states something along the lines of 'This motion picture is protected by the laws of <Insert Country Here> and other countries'.
Is it possible to use this as a guideline for C of O? I don't see any reason why not. This is legal terminology and as such has to pass scrutiny in the courts, or they leave themselves open to all kinds of problems. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964 Make America Great Again! |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 171 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Nadja: Quote: Not necessarily. I've noticed on a few Disney movies that such a sentence mentions the UK for some reason or other, and I only buy R1 Disney discs. I would expect that this statement at the end of the movie has to do with the entity that owns the copyright. A film's copyright owner could be an entity from any country, they can still release that film encoded for R1. For Disney, it is possible that they are just the distribution channel for the disc, and some other non-R1 company or person owns the copyright. |
| | JonM | Registered 28 Dec 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 343 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote: Oh, come on. That's like saying Star Wars is a British film because Sir Alec Guinness is in it. When you hire somebody it's for whatever talent they possess that you feel will accomplish your end result, be it actor, writer, director, or best boy. John, you're leap frogging posts! You already said something similar and I replied a couple of pages back: Quote:
You've got the wrong end of the stick. It isn't where a film is set or the nationality of the characters, but the nationality of the artists that matter and should dictate the ownership. They bring their own viewpoint and methods to a story and shape it accordingly. Far more than the financers.
For instance, I previously mentioned United 93. A British film by copyright apparently, a British director/writer, but a very American story.
On the other hand, Robin Hood ought to be a British film, but it can't be because Kevin Costner thinks you can walk from Dover to Nottingham in time for tea! I love the film, but it is an American viewpoint. And accent. Alec Guinness does not make a very American film British by his mere presence. It's theme and values do. | | | Jon "When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 630 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Blade: Quote: At the risk of getting this thread back on topic , doesn't the country of origin have relevance as to what copyright laws are used?
Partly. An American movie in France is protected by French laws, just like a French movie in the US is protected by American laws. See wikipedia on the Berne convention. The exception is that the copyright expiration is the minimum of the local laws and the laws of the country of origin. Quote:
The reason I ask is that, if this is the case, at the end of the credits on most productions, there is a small section of text that states something along the lines of 'This motion picture is protected by the laws of <Insert Country Here> and other countries'.
Yes, strange thing to write. Copyright is implied, so it's protected unless they state otherwise. But I guess there are no lawyer fees for not writing anything. Or it might simply because the text used to be included, and if Joe Sickpack has seen the text for the last 10 years, he might assume that the lack of such a text means there is no copyrights. It doesn't do any harm to include the text, so I guess the studios beleives they can as well make it obvious. Quote:
Is it possible to use this as a guideline for C of O? I doubt it. Copyright can be sold freely. For example, a financing studio might buy the copyright from the production company as part of their contract. | | | Regards Lars | | | Last edited: by lmoelleb |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 630 |
| Posted: | | | | Further details on Country of Origin with regards to copyright: http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html#P109_16834
I am not sure it's that useful to us though as it is basically determined by first publication only - and with simultanious publication, the CoO would apparently be the country with the shortest protection, no matter if any person or company from that country has been involved with the production at all. | | | Regards Lars |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 775 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting jgilligan: Quote: Quoting Nadja:
Quote: Not necessarily. I've noticed on a few Disney movies that such a sentence mentions the UK for some reason or other, and I only buy R1 Disney discs.
I would expect that this statement at the end of the movie has to do with the entity that owns the copyright. A film's copyright owner could be an entity from any country, they can still release that film encoded for R1.
For Disney, it is possible that they are just the distribution channel for the disc, and some other non-R1 company or person owns the copyright. They were Disney animated features, I'm sure, possibly DTV sequels, definitely US productions. I'll try to find one in the morning. |
| | JonM | Registered 28 Dec 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 343 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
But I hope you're feeling REALLY responsible for starting this topic in the first place... Oh, I'm very proud! | | | Jon "When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | OK, to quote from a similar topic, here's a crap analogy that I think may explain how a production company works:
You commission an artist to produce a portrait of your family. You advise him of composition, you decide what clothes the family are wearing, you even pick the size of the canvas. Because you paid for the work, you own copyright, but it's still the artist that produces the painting.
So if we apply this to CoO, then it's the location of the artist (production company) that defines it, not the location of the family (copyright owner).
Does that make sense or have I just confused things more? |
| | JonM | Registered 28 Dec 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 343 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: OK, to quote from a similar topic, here's a crap analogy that I think may explain how a production company works:
You commission an artist to produce a portrait of your family. You advise him of composition, you decide what clothes the family are wearing, you even pick the size of the canvas. Because you paid for the work, you own copyright, but it's still the artist that produces the painting.
So if we apply this to CoO, then it's the location of the artist (production company) that defines it, not the location of the family (copyright owner).
Does that make sense or have I just confused things more? I appreciate that, it's very good. Very crap, but certainly in the tradition! | | | Jon "When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting JonM: Quote:
I appreciate that, it's very good. Very crap, but certainly in the tradition! Aw shucks! You'll make me blush... |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,022 |
| Posted: | | | | Country of Origin The International Federation of Film Archives defines the country of origin as the country of the principal offices of the production company or individual by whom the moving image work was made. Country of production: The country of production is the country or countries where the principal offices of the production company (or companies) of a moving image work are located. The country of production is considered the country of origin
If we apply this global cataloguing standard, then the only argument should be 'which was the principle production company.
End of... | | | |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting richierich: Quote:
then the only argument should be 'which was the principle production company.
Yes, but what an argument!!! |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 630 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: ...Because you paid for the work, you own copyright, ... You might want to read Article 27 of the United Nations Universal Delaration of Human Rights. An example of a country implementing article 27 in local law: UK. So no, you would not own the copyright simply because you paid someone to paint you. You can of course optain the copyright along with the painting as part of the deal, but it would be a separate "lineitem" on the "invoice" from the artist. Unless you live in a country that does not care about human rights obviously, but then your local dictator probably owns the copyright no matter who paid whom and who created the painting (which is fair enough, as he is probably the only one who can affort a painting anyway). And even if your local dictator claims he owns the copyright, I doubt his claim would be recognized by any civilized country - they would still consider the author the copyright holder (unless the dictator is ordering a bunch of expensive planes or something obviously). | | | Regards Lars | | | Last edited: by lmoelleb |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 630 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting richierich: Quote: ...The country of production is the country or countries where the principal offices of the production company (or companies) of a moving image work are located. The country of production is considered the country of origin
If we apply this global cataloguing standard, then the only argument should be 'which was the principle production company.
End of... Ehh, did you notice that little "companies" added in brackets in the text you quoted? So if we settle that the principle production companies where X and Y, we should just cross our fingers they are in the same country? | | | Regards Lars |
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