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Creative Make-up
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
If you really feel this way (although I believe the "plurals" argument is just a red herring), why can't you simply use the custom role fields to enter the ones that don't match?

Absolutely correct, hal. Yet another attemp[t to throw mud into the water. But what Kathy believes is that she understands the Rules and she had nothing to do with them in any form, Hal. At least you, I and some others have some basis of background in the area.



Who wrote the rules or had input in their development is totally irrelevant.

My ability to read and comprehend is as good as anyone else. If fact I might argue that I see things a bit more clearly since I do not have a personal bias that impacts ones impartiality.

Edit: I would like to clarify something - I do a lot of contributing and almost all of it is something I will never use or look at again. The reason I contribute is to help the community and the database.

I have found and fixed tens of thousands of errors as I have gone through my collection - and I am only up to the Cs.

I wish the community would concentrate on the majority of easily corrected errors instead of focusing on the occasional areas of disagreement.

By the time the majority of mistakes are corrected its likely Ken will have addressed the few areas of contention. If not, we can deal with them then.
 Last edited: by Kathy
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Don't we already allow Video Tape Editor for TV Series? That isn't listed in the rules and yet I have seen them contributed.

Even though Makeup Artist & Hair to [Cast Name], Makeup for [Cast Name] are listed in the credits, one could argue that a credit such as Mr. Pitt's Makeup by would be excluded since it doesn't exactly match the rules.

One could also argue that credits that are abbreviated shouldn't be allowed since it doesn't match the rules exactly, such as VFX Supervisor. Even though we know VFX stands for Visual Effects it doesn't match the rules exactly.

Now I know that common sense isn't something that we like to discuss, but one has to use common sense to make any sense of credits that are in films/tv series as there are so many variations.

In regards to the original topic, Creative Make-up, personally I think it's just describing the make-up used. Sort of like Vampire Makeup, Ghoul Makeup or the like. All of those are makeup, aren't they? So in my opinion creative is no different.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Hal:

Its very easy to understand why the Binary approach doesn't work for Kathy. She doesn't wantt it to. She doesn't understand the or approve of the premise behind the Rules and evidently wishes all users to be able to fly ofrf in their own directions.

I would hazard to guess that the reason it doesn't work for Kathy, and quite a few other users is, as hal so succinctly put it, "because it would exclude some legitimate credits from the online database."

You may be willing to sacrifice those legitimate credits, but I am not and I am happy to see that I am not alone.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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I was researching "binary approach" and came across this article I found quite interesting:

http://innovateonpurpose.blogspot.com/2011/02/hazards-of-binary-thinking-and-poor.html
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Sweden Posts: 4,678
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Gunnar:

Nothing ever makes sense to you. Thanks for the laugh

Classical. When arguments fail, go for a personal attack. 
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Not a personal attack at all Gunnar, except in your view. You provided with me a laugh nothing more or less.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Hal:

Its very easy to understand why the Binary approach doesn't work for Kathy. She doesn't wantt it to. She doesn't understand the or approve of the premise behind the Rules and evidently wishes all users to be able to fly ofrf in their own directions.

I would hazard to guess that the reason it doesn't work for Kathy, and quite a few other users is, as hal so succinctly put it, "because it would exclude some legitimate credits from the online database."

You may be willing to sacrifice those legitimate credits, but I am not and I am happy to see that I am not alone.

Once again Martian, that is not the basis the Rules were designed upon. If you wish to include something that is NOT listed and therefore not Contributable fine start a thread on it and let's see if Ken will make an immediate change or in the future. Like I said the Rules were designed to have every user providing the same set of data, NOT to have every user running off in their own direction and trying to include data under whatever they can dream up to include it. If it is not in the listing it is not Contributable, plain and simple, end of discussion in the here and now. Should it be will Ken allow it at some point in the future, both are topics for legitimate discussion, but attempts to shoehorn data in that is not currently listed are not.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 762
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Do I understand this correct Skip, you are saying that if the credits read "Directors" plural with an "s" it would be against the rules to contribute the credit as "director" with one credit each for the 2 or more directors of the movie?

credit reads:

directors: Jim Bob Joe & Johnny Lee

It would be against the rules to contribute:

director: Jim Bob Joe
director: Johnny Lee

That would be against the rules?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Once again Martian, that is not the basis the Rules were designed upon. If you wish to include something that is NOT listed and therefore not Contributable fine start a thread on it and let's see if Ken will make an immediate change or in the future. Like I said the Rules were designed to have every user providing the same set of data, NOT to have every user running off in their own direction and trying to include data under whatever they can dream up to include it. If it is not in the listing it is not Contributable, plain and simple, end of discussion in the here and now. Should it be will Ken allow it at some point in the future, both are topics for legitimate discussion, but attempts to shoehorn data in that is not currently listed are not.

Once again, Skip, that is not your call as the rules do not belong to you.  Yes, we get it, you helped design the rules...some 7+ years ago...but that doesn't make you the arbiter of those rules.  Ken, and only Ken, can decide what is and isn't legitimate.

I do find it funny that nobody, not even the two vocal opponents in this thread, had a problem adding all the OMB credits when, based on this 'binary' approach, they weren't allowed. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting TheDarkKnight:
Quote:
Do I understand this correct Skip, you are saying that if the credits read "Directors" plural with an "s" it would be against the rules to contribute the credit as "director" with one credit each for the 2 or more directors of the movie?

credit reads:

directors: Jim Bob Joe & Johnny Lee

It would be against the rules to contribute:

director: Jim Bob Joe
director: Johnny Lee

That would be against the rules?

No, he is saying that a credit of 'Film Director' would not be allowed, even though we all know that it is the same as 'Director' and 'Directed by', because 'Film Director' isn't in the list of acceptable credits.

By this same line of thinking, '[Cast Name's] Make-up by' wouldn't be allowed because the acceptable credit is actually 'Makeup for [Cast Name]'.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
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Quoting TheDarkKnight:
Quote:
Do I understand this correct Skip, you are saying that if the credits read "Directors" plural with an "s" it would be against the rules to contribute the credit as "director" with one credit each for the 2 or more directors of the movie?

credit reads:

directors: Jim Bob Joe & Johnny Lee

It would be against the rules to contribute:

director: Jim Bob Joe
director: Johnny Lee

That would be against the rules?

This was the point I was making. One can not allow these Crew members if one follows the Crew Chart exactly as written.

One can not argue one thing (follow the Crew Chart) and do another (make an exception in the case of plurals). To do so negates the validity of that argument.

Rules can never cover everything no matter who designed them or what their intent was. During the application of those rules exceptions will occur and this is the perfect example.

If including these types of Crew is considered "shoehorning" then that is exactly what I have done and will continue to do.

And, based on the many forum poll results and the thousands of contributions submitted - the majority of contributors, voters and the screeners agree with this position.
 Last edited: by Kathy
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
No, he is saying that a credit of 'Film Director' would not be allowed, even though we all know that it is the same as 'Director' and 'Directed by', because 'Film Director' isn't in the list of acceptable credits.

By this same line of thinking, '[Cast Name's] Make-up by' wouldn't be allowed because the acceptable credit is actually 'Makeup for [Cast Name]'.


Ok, but would plurals be allowed? I don't think I saw a response from Skip yet?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting TheDarkKnight:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
No, he is saying that a credit of 'Film Director' would not be allowed, even though we all know that it is the same as 'Director' and 'Directed by', because 'Film Director' isn't in the list of acceptable credits.

By this same line of thinking, '[Cast Name's] Make-up by' wouldn't be allowed because the acceptable credit is actually 'Makeup for [Cast Name]'.


Ok, but would plurals be allowed? I don't think I saw a response from Skip yet?

There was no intent to eliminate plurals, while uncommon, they are used and frankly I didn't think anyone would stoop to such a nonsensical statement or concept. But then again most of such arguments aaare silly or specious.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
There was no intent to eliminate plurals, while uncommon, they are used and frankly I didn't think anyone would stoop to such a nonsensical statement or concept. But then again most of such arguments aaare silly or specious.

While that may not have been the intent, your binary approach would do just that.  A binary approach, unless I am missing something, means it either is or it isn't...basically 'on' or 'off'.  Like it or not, because the plural form isn't in the list, the binary approach prevents them from being entered.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
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Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:

There was no intent to eliminate plurals, while uncommon, they are used and frankly I didn't think anyone would stoop to such a nonsensical statement or concept. But then again most of such arguments aaare silly or specious.


Intent is irrelevant and can not be evaluated by the community.

It is the "uncommon" Crew that we are specifically addressing.

If the Crew Chart must be followed exactly, plurals are not allowed - no exceptions.

Advocating the inclusion of plurals while criticizing those who advocate similar "silly", "nonsensical", "specious" concepts seems hypocritical to me.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorateo357
Registered: December 27, 2009
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:

There was no intent to eliminate plurals, while uncommon, they are used and frankly I didn't think anyone would stoop to such a nonsensical statement or concept. But then again most of such arguments aaare silly or specious.


Intent is irrelevant and can not be evaluated by the community.

It is the "uncommon" Crew that we are specifically addressing.

If the Crew Chart must be followed exactly, plurals are not allowed - no exceptions.



Advocating the inclusion of plurals while criticizing those who advocate similar "silly", "nonsensical", "specious" concepts seems hypocritical to me.
 

Well said.
 Last edited: by ateo357
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