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Role Names for Interviewees
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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Registered: January 1, 2009
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For movies which have end credits, the correct way is too mark cast that's not listed in the end credits as uncredited.
Without end credits, but credited in another way during the movie: No uncredited needed.

Edit: Sounds familar. So I guess a double post from me. 
 Last edited: by VirusPil
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCorne
Registered: Nov. 1, 2000
Registered: April 5, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
In your reasoning I could also fabricate another hypothetical example. What do we do if a actor/person is credited under a fictitious name and associated role in the end credits? Applying the common name rules. The same thing applies for actors who have used some sort of stage name or screenwriters using a pseudonym. Shouldn't we add them? Yes of course should! Those are all fictitious names (stage names, pseudonyms or pen names, roles within roles etc.) and there's is a 'credited as' feature for these cases.


I repeat my position :
- listed in normal credits : as on screen
- non listed in normal credits : uncredited


- So we shouldn't add the main cast of television series because they are credited in the opening credits and aren't listed?
- Nor should we add crew credited in the opening credits, because they aren't listed as well?
Cor
 Last edited: by Corne
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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Registered: January 1, 2009
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Quoting Corne:
Quote:
...
- So we shouldn't add the main cast of television series because they are credited in the opening credits and aren't listed?
...


From the rules:
Quote:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCorne
Registered: Nov. 1, 2000
Registered: April 5, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,059
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Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
...
- So we shouldn't add the main cast of television series because they are credited in the opening credits and aren't listed?
...


From the rules:
Quote:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.


That's my point exactly.
Cor
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
In your reasoning I could also fabricate another hypothetical example. What do we do if a actor/person is credited under a fictitious name and associated role in the end credits? Applying the common name rules. The same thing applies for actors who have used some sort of stage name or screenwriters using a pseudonym. Shouldn't we add them? Yes of course should! Those are all fictitious names (stage names, pseudonyms or pen names, roles within roles etc.) and there's is a 'credited as' feature for these cases.


I repeat my position :
- listed in normal credits : as on screen
- non listed in normal credits : uncredited


Which is the opposite of what the rules tells us to do. We even have a rule that says list the people credit in beginning of the movie  that are not in the "normal credits" before those in the "normal credits".

So even if there is end credits.. and they don't list them all... it is perfectly correct per rules to put those not listed in the end before those in the "normal Credits."
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
PSN-ID: Magnolia-Fan
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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I just watched the first two episodes of Xena...finally picked it up on DVD...and the main cast is, indeed, listed individually during different scenes.  No list there, yet we enter them all the same.


Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
I think it's obvious for everyone a movie doesn't use credits on screen while it's playing so this a not only a moot point...


Which again is not a documentary. ALso they probably are credited with their actual name and role they played.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
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Quoting paulb_99:
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i think you're also deliberately trying to muddy the waters with incomplete/incorrect info to try to get things you way.


Thanks for this nice remark 
What is incorrect or incomplete in my info ?


The fact that the screenshot comes from a movie, not a documentary, in which the actor plays the role, because of the way this movie pretends to be a factual account the role of the actor also receives, like a documentary, a job function. Thereby you try to create confusion.

Had this been a documentary would they have used an incorrect name?

Probably not! Had this been an actual documentary would this be an actual credit? Yes!

Again, in my opinion you try to muddy the water by bringing in factors which have nothing to do with the actual subject being discussed just to try to make a point,

Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:

Again, in my opinion you try to muddy the water by bringing in factors which have nothing to do with the actual subject being discussed just to try to make a point,


From the beginning, I spoke of consequences on movies on the OP's position about documentaries, and the difficulty to write a rule that would allow that type of credits on certain cases and not others.

I just see that you have nothing to bring against my position. As you do not like it, you just choose to attack the guy, which means I have nothing to add.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I just watched the first two episodes of Xena...finally picked it up on DVD...and the main cast is, indeed, listed individually during different scenes.  No list there, yet we enter them all the same.


Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
I think it's obvious for everyone a movie doesn't use credits on screen while it's playing so this a not only a moot point...

Please don't try to use my statement, about standard TV series credits, to try to prove your point about some movies using documentary style identifiers as part of the film, as they are completely different.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
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We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
From the beginning, I spoke of consequences on movies on the OP's position about documentaries, and the difficulty to write a rule that would allow that type of credits on certain cases and not others.

I don't recall you mentioning any consequences, but, if the rule is specific to documentaries, what possible consequences will there be?  If the rule were something like...

For documentaries, concerts or other live events, cast information may be taken from the on screen text used to identify the person(s) being shown.

...how would cause any problems for movies?
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
I repeat my position :
- listed in normal credits : as on screen
- non listed in normal credits : uncredited

If this is the position we adopt, the main cast, for every TV series I own, is going to be 'uncredited'.  I am sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCorne
Registered: Nov. 1, 2000
Registered: April 5, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,059
Posted:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
From the beginning, I spoke of consequences on movies on the OP's position about documentaries, and the difficulty to write a rule that would allow that type of credits on certain cases and not others.

I don't recall you mentioning any consequences, but, if the rule is specific to documentaries, what possible consequences will there be?  If the rule were something like...

For documentaries, concerts or other live events, cast information may be taken from the on screen text used to identify the person(s) being shown.

...how would cause any problems for movies?


And in the example given by surfeur51 the actor is already credited in the end credits, so what's the point?
Cor
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:

Again, in my opinion you try to muddy the water by bringing in factors which have nothing to do with the actual subject being discussed just to try to make a point,


From the beginning, I spoke of consequences on movies on the OP's position about documentaries, and the difficulty to write a rule that would allow that type of credits on certain cases and not others.

I just see that you have nothing to bring against my position. As you do not like it, you just choose to attack the guy, which means I have nothing to add.


I brought numerous points against your position you chose to ignore just. I'm not going to discuss this further. To anyone but you it's clear that on screen captions during a documentary or live show is considered a credit and you decide to bring in movies and a screenshot which has nothing to do with the issue.

Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:

I don't recall you mentioning any consequences...


Quoting surfeur51 (on page 3 of this thread):
Quote:
No this is not irrelevant, as your question is related to the fact that on screen texts during the movie (documentary) are, or are not considered as credits. If they are not, I think my first answer (Dominic Lieven : Himself (uncredited)) is correct. If they are, we have to consider all the texts that describe someone (human or animal) that "played" or "had a role" specially  for this movie or documentary .

Your simple question opens a door that should remain shut, in my opinion.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
Proudly blocked by liars.
Registered: August 23, 2008
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I don't understand why this thread is 7 pages. Addicted2DVD summed it up nicely:

Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I would say if they are not in the end credits this rule would come in to effect...

Rules Quote:
Quote:
If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits.


And even if they are in the end credits... there is this rule... which would allow us to use the roles from the documentary itself.

Rules Quote:
Quote:
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.


Would allow us to us stuff like "Biographer of Nicholas II"... taking it from the film itself as the rule states.

The only way I would use something like...

Name as Himself

is if the actual end credits had it that way.


The rules already have a fix for something like this.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
...but, if the rule is specific to documentaries...


Today, as long as I can read in the rules, we have nothing specific to documentaries. I recall you that I agreed on the necessity to write something specific.

As long as new rules have not been written, you cannot argue about different rules for documentaries or movies. Of course my position in this thread (Contribution Forum) concern present rules, not future ones that have to be discussed in another forum.
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