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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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comma before JR or SR? |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Quoting hal9g:
Quote: Using the most commonly credited form of an actors name seems to be, at least for me, the easiest and best solution. Easiest? Sure. Best? I guess that depends on how you define best. To me, best would be an accurate reflection of the "credited as" data in the real film credits. That's far from where we are today. | | | Hal | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,807 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: Quoting hal9g:
Quote: Using the most commonly credited form of an actors name seems to be, at least for me, the easiest and best solution.
Easiest? Sure.
Easiest? I think the easiest would be what m.cellophane said: Quote: It would be easier to me to throw in a comma before a Jr. and to never have to consider it again.
Quoting hal9g: Quote: Best? I guess that depends on how you define best. To me, best would be an accurate reflection of the "credited as" data in the real film credits.
That's far from where we are today. And I don't see it happening tomorrow either | | | -- Enry | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 1,777 |
| Posted: | | | | I wish there was a way for those of us who are plowing ahead on our own to compare notes. Seems to shame to waste all this energy, even if it comes from a relative minority. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Midnit:
PM's work, there are ways.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote: Well, I personally understand why you do that, but I fear that strictly speaking that is not what the Rule asks us to do.
Quoting the Credits Rules:
Quote: Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.
To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool. Are we supposed to know in advance that an actor listed in the film as "John Doe" is actually "John Quincy Doe" and that we should use the CLT to check each and every person listed in the credit roll to see if we should be using the "credited as" function? I'm sorry, but I think it's unrealistic to expect people to do this except for those familiar actors and actresses. I think Unicus is on the right track to base his contribution on the end credits. Except for possible capitalizations, there's no doubt as to what the end credits show. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: The fact that some people are assuming the db is filled with IMDb data is besides the point...again, IMHO. I'm won't try to convince anyone that IMDb is error free, but just because some of the data (even a lot of the data) is from IMDb doesn't necessarily make it wrong. Whether or not it came from IMDb, the data is there and must be dealt with. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,807 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote: Are we supposed to know in advance that an actor listed in the film as "John Doe" is actually "John Quincy Doe" and that we should use the CLT to check each and every person listed in the credit roll to see if we should be using the "credited as" function? Of course not, but -let me play the devil's advocate!- you are supposed to use the CLT if you know they are the same person: there is not an option whether to use it or "refuse". Besides, someone might object to your contribution on those grounds, claiming that the person's Name differs from the Credited Name and that you should thus have used Credited As ("John Doe") and the Common Name as determined by the CLT ("John Quincy Doe"). Especially -I guess- when "John Doe" and "John Quincy Doe" are already linked in other profiles, and if some documentation is provided that proves the link. | | | -- Enry | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote: Well, I personally understand why you do that, but I fear that strictly speaking that is not what the Rule asks us to do.
Quoting the Credits Rules:
Quote: Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.
To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool. Yes, but how do we know when the person's name differes from the credited name? There are some actors where it is easy...Verne Troyer, Courteney Cox, Jada Pinkett Smith...but the vast majority? I have no idea...unless you are suggesting that I have to check each and every actor to see if there might be a different credit out there somewhere. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote: Of course not, but -let me play the devil's advocate!- you are supposed to use the CLT if you know they are the same person: there is not an option whether to use it or "refuse". That is why I said, "for the most part." Quote: Besides, someone might object to your contribution on those grounds, claiming that the person's Name differs from the Credited Name and that you should thus have used Credited As ("John Doe") and the Common Name as determined by the CLT ("John Quincy Doe"). Especially -I guess- when "John Doe" and "John Quincy Doe" are already linked in other profiles, and if some documentation is provided that proves the link. Now I am not unreasonable. If someone tells me that there is a common name in one of my contributions, I am more than happy to change it...assuming they can document it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,807 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Yes, but how do we know when the person's name differes from the credited name? If it's a comma-Junior, it's likely that it will differ from the IMDb-slash-CLT Junior | | | -- Enry |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote: Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote: Well, I personally understand why you do that, but I fear that strictly speaking that is not what the Rule asks us to do.
Quoting the Credits Rules:
Quote: Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.
To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool. Are we supposed to know in advance that an actor listed in the film as "John Doe" is actually "John Quincy Doe" and that we should use the CLT to check each and every person listed in the credit roll to see if we should be using the "credited as" function? I'm sorry, but I think it's unrealistic to expect people to do this except for those familiar actors and actresses. I think Unicus is on the right track to base his contribution on the end credits. Except for possible capitalizations, there's no doubt as to what the end credits show. I cannot speak for others, but the only time I use the CLT, is when I already know variants of a name are out there or if when I go to add the actor to a profile, more than one variation shows up in the actor list. | | | Hal | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,730 |
| Posted: | | | | The value of the information given by the usage of CLT and assumptions, possibly even helped by a little investigation on IMDB and related sites can be seen in this thread. In short: There's none!So it's either "As credited" (with the inherent problem that we have the same actor twice and more in the database) or a rule how to build up a common name with the option to use "credited as" if needed AND verified. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up! But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: I cannot speak for others, but the only time I use the CLT, is when I already know variants of a name are out there or if when I go to add the actor to a profile, more than one variation shows up in the actor list. I used the CLT recently when doing a TV profile which had someone credited differently over the course of the series. I wasn't sure which was the base name and which was the "credited as" name, so I went to the CLT for help. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 951 |
| Posted: | | | | I believe the real solution is going to have to come from Ken in the form of a programatic change where Profiler ignores "," and ".".
So all these would autmatically be equal
Robert Downey Jr Robert Downey Jr. Robert Downey, Jr Robert Downey, Jr.
The similar solution for these type of names
Penélope Cruz Penelope Cruz
Let the program link the names and we just enter the data as we see in the credits.
Until then I would say go with the most commonly credited as using the credit lookup tool. | | | Are you local? This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote: I believe the real solution is going to have to come from Ken in the form of a programatic change where Profiler ignores "," and ".".
So all these would autmatically be equal
Robert Downey Jr Robert Downey Jr. Robert Downey, Jr Robert Downey, Jr.
The similar solution for these type of names
Penélope Cruz Penelope Cruz
Let the program link the names and we just enter the data as we see in the credits.
Until then I would say go with the most commonly credited as using the credit lookup tool. That would be a good solution...now we just need Ken to tell us if it is a viable one. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Unicus: All that is being described is the system as i described many moons ago. I don't think at this point Ken will change direction, even though I still think its better. What we have now, to try and describe it in lay terms Robert Downey, Jr=Robert Downey Jr AND Robert Downey Jr. AND Robert Downey, Jr As I was describing it, there is NO priority name Robert Downey, Jr=Robert Downey Jr = Robert Downey Jr. = Robert Downey, Jr Your search will reveal the correct answers everytime, they could be prioritized around your actual Search, with other results listed by frequency or whatever.<shrugs> But....c'est la vie. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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