Quoting hal9g:

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You keep talking about this as if we are talking about the "credited as" name.  No one is suggesting standardizing the "credited as" name.

No, I am talking about this as if it were a name without any variants.

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We're talking about the "common name".  I really don't understand what the big deal is.  It makes no difference whatsoever in the accuracy of the actual film credit data, that still comes directly from the screen credits.

We are talking about the 'most commonly credited name'.  If you start changing it based on arbitrary standards, then it is no longer the most commonly credited name.

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It is not what you see when you look at the cast or crew list.  So what harm exactly is done by standardizing this small insignificant part of the name in the "common name" field?  By doing so, there is never any question about how it should be entered in the "common name field".  We don't need to worry about how much IMDb garbage data is currently in the "credited as" data in the lookup tool for these specific instances.

There isn't a question now, at least not as far as I am concerned.  I know how it should be entered.  It should be entered as it is found in the majority of the credits in the invelos db.  If there are no variants, then it is entered 'as credited'.

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I really do not understand the argument at all.

And I really do not understand the need to create an arbitrary name variant for an actor that didn't have one to begin with. 

Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting EnryWiki:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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Then somebody will come up with something else, they want to standardize, maybe Mýa or somethjing else, then someone else will have their per standardized name and so on and pretty soon it's a mess. We have never adnd don't now standardize ANY names for ANY reason. I can't support ANY such premise under ANY circumstances,

That's not completely true. There is already one exception, and it seems to me that no "mess" has come from that.

Quoting the Credits Rules:

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Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.

The capitalization exception is very specific, and so would be a standard for commas before Jr./Sr. suffixes.

There is a difference between that exception and the one you are proposing.  The 'all caps' exception doesn't change the data.  'JOHN SMITH' and 'John Smith' are the same.  Nothing is added, nothing is subtracted.  On the other hand, 'John Smith Jr.' and 'John Smith, Jr." are not the same.  Data has been added.

If we make this exception, why not an exception that adds periods to initials?  Change 'JD Drew' to J.D. Drew'.  Or, how about adding a 'Sr.' when a father and son share the same name?  Make 'Lon Chaney', the father, into 'Lon Chaney, Sr.'.  Nevermind that he isn't credited that way.

I could go on, but I don't think I need to.  That is the 'slippery slope' this could send us down. 

You keep talking about this as if we are talking about the "credited as" name.  No one is suggesting standardizing the "credited as" name.

We're talking about the "common name".  I really don't understand what the big deal is.  It makes no difference whatsoever in the accuracy of the actual film credit data, that still comes directly from the screen credits. 

It is not what you see when you look at the cast or crew list.  So what harm exactly is done by standardizing this small insignificant part of the name in the "common name" field?  By doing so, there is never any question about how it should be entered in the "common name field".  We don't need to worry about how much IMDb garbage data is currently in the "credited as" data in the lookup tool for these specific instances.

I really do not understand the argument at all.

Wrong, Hal that is EXACTLY what this thread is about, standardizing a name that has NO other variants because the actor appears in ONE film. But the author of this thread wants to standardize it and in effect create a fictitious variant.

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ALL you have to do is the research, Achim, it took me less than 2 minutes to ascertain the resume of this particular actor, and NOT just through our Lookup system. He has a massive resume of ONE movie, so there is NO common name to be established, the author simply believed that he should establish a standard name despite polls to the contrary. and even tried to use as support a poll that was taken which had NOTHING to do with Standardizing names but had to do with how to handle a suffix when we found a common name issue. With ONE movie there is no Common Name issue, in short the user violated the Rules.

What is clearer than AS CREDITED, Achim? The Common Name was set up expressly for VARIANT names for the same person, NOT to establish some sort standards for naming, AS CREDITED is still the baseline.

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Quoting mdnitoil:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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If we make this exception, why not an exception that adds periods to initials?  Change 'JD Drew' to J.D. Drew'.  Or, how about adding a 'Sr.' when a father and son share the same name?  Make 'Lon Chaney', the father, into 'Lon Chaney, Sr.'.  Nevermind that he isn't credited that way.

I could go on, but I don't think I need to.  That is the 'slippery slope' this could send us down. 

Quoting hal9g:

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You keep talking about this as if we are talking about the "credited as" name.  No one is suggesting standardizing the "credited as" name.

We're talking about the "common name".  I really don't understand what the big deal is.  It makes no difference whatsoever in the accuracy of the actual film credit data, that still comes directly from the screen credits. 

It is not what you see when you look at the cast or crew list.  So what harm exactly is done by standardizing this small insignificant part of the name in the "common name" field?  By doing so, there is never any question about how it should be entered in the "common name field".  We don't need to worry about how much IMDb garbage data is currently in the "credited as" data in the lookup tool for these specific instances.

I really do not understand the argument at all.

I'm with hal on this one.  I don't see anyone proposing name changes on credited-as, just common name.  Unicus, using your Lon Chaney example, yes, I would change all references to Sr. or Jr., but only in the common name so I can finally link their credits together.  Credited-as would always be what appears on the screen.  Like hal, I cannot for the life of me see the slippery slope.  For me, it's all about consolidating the common actor database into a concise list.  Credited-as will always be all over the map.

Couldn't agree with you more. I wonder if the title 'Common Name' is throwing everybody off though. Maybe it should be refered to as the more appropriate 'Linking Name'. After all that's what it's supposed to do, isn't it? Link the same actor together with all their movies. And what's wrong with a standard that helps in that end?

Unicus, if you see a profile that you are about to download that has a actor named John Doe Jr. are you sure that he is going to be linked to your other movie where he was credited as John Doe, Jr.? Or would it be easier to see if it was John Doe, Jr. [John Doe Jr.]? The 'Credited As' field is for Hollywood to name any actor any way they want. The 'Linking Name' is for DVDP to allow you to see all those profiles that have the same actor. Don't know why people don't want this feature.

Quoting Unicus69:

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Just as an aside, I did a search using all caps and mixed case...

'ROBERT DE NIRO', 'Robert De Niro', 'Robert de Niro' and 'robert de niro' all gave me Robert De Niro so the data IS the same.

In the credit lookup tool? So you have just shown that this tool is not case sensitive and not that the data is the same. But this gets off topic now.

Quoting tlevel:

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Quoting mdnitoil:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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If we make this exception, why not an exception that adds periods to initials?  Change 'JD Drew' to J.D. Drew'.  Or, how about adding a 'Sr.' when a father and son share the same name?  Make 'Lon Chaney', the father, into 'Lon Chaney, Sr.'.  Nevermind that he isn't credited that way.

I could go on, but I don't think I need to.  That is the 'slippery slope' this could send us down. 

I'm with hal on this one.  I don't see anyone proposing name changes on credited-as, just common name.  Unicus, using your Lon Chaney example, yes, I would change all references to Sr. or Jr., but only in the common name so I can finally link their credits together.  Credited-as would always be what appears on the screen.  Like hal, I cannot for the life of me see the slippery slope.  For me, it's all about consolidating the common actor database into a concise list.  Credited-as will always be all over the map.

Couldn't agree with you more. I wonder if the title 'Common Name' is throwing everybody off though. Maybe it should be refered to as the more appropriate 'Linking Name'. After all that's what it's supposed to do, isn't it? Link the same actor together with all their movies. And what's wrong with a standard that helps in that end?

Unicus, if you see a profile that you are about to download that has a actor named John Doe Jr. are you sure that he is going to be linked to your other movie where he was credited as John Doe, Jr.? Or would it be easier to see if it was John Doe, Jr. [John Doe Jr.]? The 'Credited As' field is for Hollywood to name any actor any way they want. The 'Linking Name' is for DVDP to allow you to see all those profiles that have the same actor. Don't know why people don't want this feature.

For me, it isn't just about adding a comma.  For me, it is about the road that takes us down.  We already have mdnitoil saying he would add 'Sr.' where it didn't exist before.  My question is why?

If 'Lon Chaney', the father, is always credited as 'Lon Chaney', he is already linked.  I see no reason to create a variance that doesn't already exist.  'Lon Chaney Jr', on the other hand, should have 'Jr' added to all his roles.  That will link all his films and prevent him from being linked with his father.

Creating a 'common name', or even a 'linking name', 'just because' doesn't make any sense.

Quoting Unicus69:

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For me, it isn't just about adding a comma.  For me, it is about the road that takes us down.  We already have mdnitoil saying he would add 'Sr.' where it didn't exist before.  My question is why?

If 'Lon Chaney', the father, is always credited as 'Lon Chaney', he is already linked.  I see no reason to create a variance that doesn't already exist.  'Lon Chaney Jr', on the other hand, should have 'Jr' added to all his roles.  That will link all his films and prevent him from being linked with his father.

Creating a 'common name', or even a 'linking name', 'just because' doesn't make any sense.

Well Lon Chaney should be solved with the birthyear and that should be the end of that.

I'm talking about standardizing how a name is written to best help the workings of the linking of actors together. You see one movie that has John Doe Jr., and you assume that is always going to hold? Next two movies that come out he might be credited as John Doe, Jr. and John Doe Jr then what? You saying that these people should not be linked? Wouldn't it be easy to vote yes or no if all linking names were written the same, with the same standard? If you accept a profile that has an actor named John Doe Jr. are you certain that it's going to link to your list of actors? If you standardized the way it was written, they you would know for sure. If half of your names are Jr. and the other half are Jr you going to remember which one is the one you already have?

Credited As is for Hollywood, Names is for DVD Profiler to work. You are not inventing data if you add a period, you are just making something easier to work with.

I agree Pete. We have very deliberately tried to keep exceptions to an absolute minimum, every exception adds more complexity to the process.

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