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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | I personally would disagree with that. Everyone should continue to have the right to contribute their work and allow the voters and screeners to decide if it is correct or not.
Besides... on a title such as this... if you (general you) believe the title is "R.I.P.D.: Rest in Peace Department" (I personally don't)... to them most the title is missing... so to them it would be "demonstrably wrong."
Same could be said for those that believe it is only R.I.P.D.... having all that extra... to them having all that extra they would believe it to be "demonstrably wrong." | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,272 |
| Posted: | | | | Like I said before, I believe the actual title is R.I.P.D. and that is how I'd have it in my local. But the rules are clear: Use the title from the front cover. Which means the user has to interpret the front cover and determine what is the actual title. I'd prefer to pull the title from the movie itself, at least in single movie profiles. And in fact that is what I try to do with my local.
The rules are rules IMO, not guidelines nor recommendations. If the rules state to use the title from the front cover then use the title from the front cover. While there are exceptions to every rule, I don't think it is our job as contributors to make that call. Either Ken/Invelos needs to step in, or update the rules to accommodate the exception. Ken has already stated this kind of thing isn't worth his time nor attention, which I found unbelievable and arrogant. It would literately take him 2-3 minutes to post his decision, instead we as a community spends hours going back and forth trying to determine the best course of action.
I don't bother submitting or voting on these type of grey areas, I adjust my local to my liking and lock it down. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707 Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800 BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Nobody is saying not to follow the rule. There is just a difference in opinion on what the actual title on the front cover is. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,272 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: Nobody is saying not to follow the rule. There is just a difference in opinion on what the actual title on the front cover is. I don't agree. I'm not implying malice but they are certainly ignoring part of the DVD title. If you knew nothing of the movie, what would you say the title is? | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707 Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800 BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server | | | Last edited: by DoubleDownAgain |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Lewis_Prothero: Quote: Even if I would accept this statement to be true, the question still stands:
How on earth is anyone (except you, of course) supposed to know the difference? What defines a "True Subtitle"? And how do we distinguish it from the faked? This will answer your post to me above and, yes, it is R1 scentric so adjustments would have to be made for areas that this doesn't work for. If I am ever unsure about what part of the text on the front of the case is the actual title, I verify with the credit block and the spine. While I am sure there are exceptions out there, I have yet to see a release that doesn't have the actual title in one or both of those areas. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote: Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote: Nobody is saying not to follow the rule. There is just a difference in opinion on what the actual title on the front cover is.
I don't agree. I'm not implying malice but they are certainly ignoring part of the DVD title. If you knew nothing of the movie, what would you say the title is? I actually know nothing about this title at all... never even seen the trailer for it. And going by the front cover only I would say the title is just.... R.I.P.DI see nothing on the front cover to make me think "Rest in Peace Department" is part of the title. Even the rules say for possessives that " In the absence of quotes to verify, check the font size used for the title on the front cover. Generally, possessives which use a significantly smaller font are not part of the title." So reading that rule... why wouldn't I apply the same logic to determine whether this is part of the title or not? | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,272 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Quoting Lewis_Prothero:
Quote: Even if I would accept this statement to be true, the question still stands:
How on earth is anyone (except you, of course) supposed to know the difference? What defines a "True Subtitle"? And how do we distinguish it from the faked? This will answer your post to me above and, yes, it is R1 scentric so adjustments would have to be made for areas that this doesn't work for.
If I am ever unsure about what part of the text on the front of the case is the actual title, I verify with the credit block and the spine. While I am sure there are exceptions out there, I have yet to see a release that doesn't have the actual title in one or both of those areas. "I verify with the credit block and the spine" Where does it say to do that in the rules? | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707 Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800 BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,272 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I actually know nothing about this title at all... never even seen the trailer for it. And going by the front cover only I would say the title is just....
R.I.P.D
I see nothing on the front cover to make me think "Rest in Peace Department" is part of the title. Even the rules say for possessives that " In the absence of quotes to verify, check the font size used for the title on the front cover. Generally, possessives which use a significantly smaller font are not part of the title."
So reading that rule... why wouldn't I apply the same logic to determine whether this is part of the title or not? Where is the possessive in this case? | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707 Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800 BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server | | | Last edited: by DoubleDownAgain |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote: All the other ones are either true subtitles, or episodic decriptors And who decided what a "true subtitle" looks like? You? It looks exactly the same as most of the rest of those covers in terms of format. It is not a name, a review, a tagline, an advertisement or any other type of data, so by default it is a subtitle. | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: If I am ever unsure about what part of the text on the front of the case is the actual title, I verify with the credit block and the spine. While I am sure there are exceptions out there, I have yet to see a release that doesn't have the actual title in one or both of those areas. Except that we do not "verify" the title by checking either of those places EXCEPT in one specific case, which does not apply here! AND, we're not looking for the "actual" title. We are looking for the title of this specific DVD/Blu ray release! | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Where did I ever say there was any type of possessive? I said going by the front cover I believe the title to be R.I.P.D. and I asked with the rules that we have (not telling us how to determine what on the front cover is the title)... why wouldn't I use the same logic as the possessive rule in a case such as this? | | | Pete | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote: "I verify with the credit block and the spine" Where does it say to do that in the rules? It doesn't, but it also doesn't say "enter all the text from the front cover." All it says is, "Use the title from the front cover." As I said earlier, it is up to each of us to determine what that title is. I am not asking you to agree, but that is how I read the rule. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: If I am ever unsure about what part of the text on the front of the case is the actual title, I verify with the credit block and the spine. While I am sure there are exceptions out there, I have yet to see a release that doesn't have the actual title in one or both of those areas.
Except that we do not "verify" the title by checking either of those places EXCEPT in one specific case, which does not apply here!
AND, we're not looking for the "actual" title. We are looking for the title of this specific DVD/Blu ray release! I agree with what we are looking for. But I also realize more then one person can have more then one opinion on what the DVD release title in a case such as this would be. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: I see nothing on the front cover to make me think "Rest in Peace Department" is part of the title. Even the rules say for possessives that " In the absence of quotes to verify, check the font size used for the title on the front cover. Generally, possessives which use a significantly smaller font are not part of the title."
So reading that rule... why wouldn't I apply the same logic to determine whether this is part of the title or not? Using that logic, almost the entire list of titles I posted previously would have their sub-titles and episodic descriptors removed from the title. Is that what you're suggesting we do? | | | Hal | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | And in regards to the list I posted, there are NO episodic descriptors included. Those which I listed that are sequels, have BOTH a sequel number AND a subtitle.
For instance, there is only ONE "Santa Clause III". However, the DVD cover shows a subtitle in addition to the sequel number: "Santa Clause III: The Escape Clause" | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | No Hal... the question that was given to me was if I knew nothing at all about the title what would I think it was.
I told him that...
1. I know nothing at all about this title... never even seen the trailer 2. Looking only at the front cover I believe the title of this DVD release to be R.I.P.D. 3. In cases such as this (Where I know nothing at all about the title)... why wouldn't I use the same logic as the possession rule? It is the closest thing we have in the rules to help us determine what the title is. | | | Pete |
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