Now the whole thing with common name threads started well before I came to the community

But here is a point Ken makes that does seem to support their existence


http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=1&messageID=1170743#M1170743

Quoting Ken Cole:

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The lookup tool is not to be blindly trusted, however it does outweigh other sources, including autographs.  The common name is not intended to always reflect the "real name", but the most commonly credited name. 

However, if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered. Better yet, correct the entries, assuming you own the discs in question, thereby correcting the lookup results.

Quoting ateo357:

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I just don't understand why people would suggest not to correct bad data in the database.

If that is what you think 'people' are suggesting, you have misunderstood the discussion.  What GSyren is asking is, why are common name threads better than raw CLT numbers for determinig the common name? 

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Common name threads help with changing a incorrect credit in a profile by giving a contributor documentation for changing it. CLT wouldn't be such a mess if in the past they used the credited name and not the IMDB name.

While this is true, it doesn't answer GSyren's question.

There are two different issues involved in this discussion, and I did not fully realize this when I started this thread, because I saw a common solution to both of them and therefore treated them as one. This seems to have caused confusion, and I apologize for that. So let me try to unconfuse this...

1) The CLT counts the credits the way they are entered in the profiles, rather than the way they appear in the credits (obviously).

2) The CLT attempts to count titles as well as profiles. It does this - I assume - by comparing Title and Original Title, so that for example Snow White, Schneewittchen and Snövit are considered the same title. While this works fairly well for movies, it works less well for TV Shows since there are no rules (or user conventions) for Original Title that actually allows this to be done. So for example CSI:Season One does not necessarily match Les Experts: Saison 1 nor CSI: Säsong 1 so these will all be considered different titles by the CLT.

The Common Name threads mainly concern problem 1, and are - as far as I can tell - not primarily concerned with correcting the base data, but rather with correcting the statistics, and assigning common name based on actual credits rather than profiled credits. I think Ken is somewhat misguided when he says "However, if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered. Better yet, correct the entries, assuming you own the discs in question, thereby correcting the lookup results." I think that correcting all the entries that you can is the right remedy, and then accept the CLT results even if uncorrected entries remain.

However, my primary concern was really problem 2. In the example that I provided there is no indication that any credit is incorrect. The only problem is that the CLT counts the TV shows in a way that the contributor considers wrong. And this is where things get really complicated. Do we really want to open this can of worms? If a season is released as two half-season releases in the US and as a single full season release in the UK, would this be one, two or three titles, just to highlight one problem? So I say, let's just accept the CLT figures or we'll be digging a deep hole for ourselves.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting ateo357:

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OK example for not taking CLT at face value. Mike Wilhoit I have 41 films (including Multiple Versions) with that screen credit in them, half of them have the common name as Michael D. Wilhoit (From original download) Checked the CLT and almost everyone that I know is Mike, is credited in the CLT as Michael D. Or Michael also. Now include incorrect production year and incorrect original titles and you have a complete train wreck of bad data that is continually uploaded into personal databases. Common name threads point out incorrect data if people pay attention to it. And just maybe they will take the time to correct it in different region DVD's.

another example - CLT Tommy J. Huff 14 credits (Common Name). Problem in almost 200 films as a stunt person/actor I have never found him credited as Tommy J. Huff. - So now we have to link Tom, Thomas, Thomas J., Tommy, Tom J. to a fictional person named Tommy J. Huff. (IMDB name)

I think you have just illustrated the fatal flaw with the common name threads.  While they do point out incorrect data, most people don't pay attention to them and the vast majority will not take the time to correct it in different regions.  The only people, as far as I can see, that do pay attention and take that time are the ones who participate in those threads.  While I understand the desire, realistically, it all seems a bit futile to me.

If I am being honest, I don't believe either method...common name threads or raw CLT numbers...is really going to work.  When I have the time to contribute a profile, I copy the cast and crew and submit.  I don't research the names, I don't check the CLT and I most certainly do not search the forums for common name threads.  I contribute 'as credited' and am done with it and am willing to bet that most of the contributors, at least the ones who take the time to contribute per the rules, do it the exact same way.

Until Ken comes up with a way, similar to IMDb, that is a basic 'key' for each person, the linking system will never work for the entire community.

If everbody quits trying, then you have nothing, only a complete roboot would fix it, start from scratch.
Myself, I will keep correcting data, starting common name threads, If others join in and help out, fine. If they just sit on their hands, that's also fine.
And if there is a linking solution in the future (I won't hold my breath) I'll be happy to contribute to that.

It should just be credited names in the database, and the common name is in the personal databases, and wouldn't be contributable. It would be up to each person to set up their own links. Maybe tied in with the headshot photo.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting ateo357:

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OK example for not taking CLT at face value. Mike Wilhoit I have 41 films (including Multiple Versions) with that screen credit in them, half of them have the common name as Michael D. Wilhoit (From original download) Checked the CLT and almost everyone that I know is Mike, is credited in the CLT as Michael D. Or Michael also. Now include incorrect production year and incorrect original titles and you have a complete train wreck of bad data that is continually uploaded into personal databases. Common name threads point out incorrect data if people pay attention to it. And just maybe they will take the time to correct it in different region DVD's.

another example - CLT Tommy J. Huff 14 credits (Common Name). Problem in almost 200 films as a stunt person/actor I have never found him credited as Tommy J. Huff. - So now we have to link Tom, Thomas, Thomas J., Tommy, Tom J. to a fictional person named Tommy J. Huff. (IMDB name)

I think you have just illustrated the fatal flaw with the common name threads.  While they do point out incorrect data, most people don't pay attention to them and the vast majority will not take the time to correct it in different regions.  The only people, as far as I can see, that do pay attention and take that time are the ones who participate in those threads.  While I understand the desire, realistically, it all seems a bit futile to me.

If I am being honest, I don't believe either method...common name threads or raw CLT numbers...is really going to work.  When I have the time to contribute a profile, I copy the cast and crew and submit.  I don't research the names, I don't check the CLT and I most certainly do not search the forums for common name threads.  I contribute 'as credited' and am done with it and am willing to bet that most of the contributors, at least the ones who take the time to contribute per the rules, do it the exact same way.

Until Ken comes up with a way, similar to IMDb, that is a basic 'key' for each person, the linking system will never work for the entire community.

Although I and probably everyone agree that the only true answer is a better linking system, if and when that occurs.  I do disagree on your wording.  How is it a fatal flaw to support a method in which a subset of the community will see incorrect data and correct it.  It is a given only a subset of the community participates with them, but on the other hand only a subset of the community cares about linking.  It has flaws, but they are not fatal.  The CLT raw results have flaws as well, but the common name threads are at least identifying the incorrect data and some of it is getting fixed.