Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Mark Harrison:

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If anything other than "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" makes it into the database, then the system has failed.  It's as simple as that.

I agree with that. And the system has failed when we got some unsearchable T4xi, some non linking actors names with voluntarily added spelling mistakes, or each time we recopy errors knowing they are errors. This title is one of the examples where rules need to be interpreted with common sense, which most people seem to agree in this case, but the same ones often disagree to use common sense for other fields.

There is only two solutions :
1/ follow strictly rules and sometimes get stupid results.
2/ interpret rules each time common sense asks to do so.

But the solution "2/ for me when I want" and "1/ for the others even if they don't like" is just "bending the rules when it suites you"

Why are we bending the rules in this case?

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting TheDarkKnight:

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Why are we bending the rules in this case?

When this rule was discussed in the past for T4xi, the majority explained that we should use exactly what is on cover. It was considered as forbidden to use the title of the movie, Taxi 4 since it was not what was on the cover. If this is still the good interpretation for "Nude Nuns...", then we bend the rules when adding a second "s" which is not present.

If we may use movie title, then T4xi should be contributed as Taxi 4.

We cannot say white for one, black for the other, in front of the same type of problem.

Well first fo all they are not the same type of problem.  That thread also concluded is what we need is more title firleds and not to take the data integrity from the ones we have.  We concluded we should have a title field for the credit block and one other (I forget exactly which it was) rather than taking the data integrity away from an existing data element.

The problem we have here is this is DVD Profiler and not "Movie Profiler"  The point fo the tool is to manage DVD collections and therefore it makes perfect sense we would take it from the case.

Now the problem you with "T4xi" is simple, this is exactly what is on the case and you want to contribut it as "Taxi 4".  Now "T4xi" contains no symbols and is straight forward. For marketing they chose to replace the "a" with a "4"

This case of "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" is completely different.  They are symbolically making the "S" large to represent and "S" appying to two different words.  Completely different situations.  And since we cannot create that symbolism in the tiitle field the rules state we should use the credit block (as Kathy pointed out  )

Two completely different and unrelated situations.  But only related in the fact you do not agree in the end result.

Both are very clear and handled in the rules.

Your attempt amd motiviation to compare the two is obvious.  And your just want to fuel and flame an argument at this point, trying to use the arguments from one to get the other.



I am now hoing back to saying out of this 

Quoting Scooter1836:

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This case of "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" is completely different.  They are symbolically making the "S" large to represent and "S" appying to two different words. 

I'm sorry but that is an assumption, and as Skip says loud and clear "Do not make assumptions, follow the data." and the data in this case has only one "S".

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Mark Harrison:

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If anything other than "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" makes it into the database, then the system has failed.  It's as simple as that.

I agree with that. And the system has failed when we got some unsearchable T4xi, some non linking actors names with voluntarily added spelling mistakes, or each time we recopy errors knowing they are errors. This title is one of the examples where rules need to be interpreted with common sense, which most people seem to agree in this case, but the same ones often disagree to use common sense for other fields.

There is only two solutions :
1/ follow strictly rules and sometimes get stupid results.
2/ interpret rules each time common sense asks to do so.

But the solution "2/ for me when I want" and "1/ for the others even if they don't like" is just "bending the rules when it suites you"

First of all, as Scooter points out, Nuns with Guns is similar to T4xi, but only on the surface.  They really are two different, but related issues.  You may think you have an irrefutable proof of the rules being bent one way or the other depending on the whims of your fellow profilers.  But most would disagree.

Second, I didn't take part in those other threads, so I don't know the arguments behind them.  But what I do know is that if a few rulings on The Rules don't go your way, attempting to sabotage other data isn't going to fix the original problem.

Third, trying to relate this problem to other problems is what lead us here in the first place.  It's near impossible, if not completely impossible, to write a single rule to handle every situation.  And that's just with the title.  You either end up with rules where a little common sense is needed or rules that are complete exhaustive and way too much work to read and understand.  Having this kind of stuff popping up constantly is just going to drive us towards that point where the rules become a book.  And that's not good for anyone.

I understand what you're doing and why.  But I really don't think you're helping your cause here at all.  In fact, I think you're doing more harm than good.

Quoting mediadogg:

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(2) There should be a Master Rule that says "In all cases, the result of applying rules should be a database that is correct and consistent in the eyes of the larger community of Invelos customers, even if it means ignoring or bending a rule."

I pretty much agree with everything you said.  This statement in particular.  In fact, I was thinking basically the same exact thing while you were obviously typing!

I think the #1 rule that should override every other rule out there is to not enter bad data (though I prefer your wording ).  If you feel a rule is causing you to enter bad data, you should stop and get clarification.

Of course the second big obstacle (the first being users doing crap like this) is that we don't really have a quick way to respond to this.  You can post something and get answers from users in moments.  But to get input from Invelos, or better yet, a modification to the rules, in a timely manner would be best.  In an ideal world, problems like this would be dealt with by the higher-ups within 24 hours of the problem being reported.  I can see the trickier ones dragging out multiple days as people get a chance to weigh in.  But this one is a slam dunk.  You can even see the correct title on the spine!  As soon as this came up, the rule should have been changed (in my opinion).  Letting things drag out like this for weeks, months or forever just leads to more of the same nonsense.

Also, in an ideal world, users would use a little common sense.  This being a perfect example.  After 5 pages, I've yet to see a valid argument for this.  It seems to me that this is just another way to re-hash old topics that have been discussed to death already.

Quoting Mark Harrison:

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I think the #1 rule that should override every other rule out there is to not enter bad data (though I prefer your wording ).  If you feel a rule is causing you to enter bad data, you should stop and get clarification.

But is that not exactly what Yves is doing with his poll? Seeking clarification?

Quoting Scooter1836:

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Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting TheDarkKnight:

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Why are we bending the rules in this case?

When this rule was discussed in the past for T4xi, the majority explained that we should use exactly what is on cover. It was considered as forbidden to use the title of the movie, Taxi 4 since it was not what was on the cover. If this is still the good interpretation for "Nude Nuns...", then we bend the rules when adding a second "s" which is not present.

If we may use movie title, then T4xi should be contributed as Taxi 4.

We cannot say white for one, black for the other, in front of the same type of problem.

Well first fo all they are not the same type of problem.  That thread also concluded is what we need is more title firleds and not to take the data integrity from the ones we have.  We concluded we should have a title field for the credit block and one other (I forget exactly which it was) rather than taking the data integrity away from an existing data element.

The problem we have here is this is DVD Profiler and not "Movie Profiler"  The point fo the tool is to manage DVD collections and therefore it makes perfect sense we would take it from the case.

Now the problem you with "T4xi" is simple, this is exactly what is on the case and you want to contribut it as "Taxi 4".  Now "T4xi" contains no symbols and is straight forward. For marketing they chose to replace the "a" with a "4"

This case of "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" is completely different.  They are symbolically making the "S" large to represent and "S" appying to two different words.  Completely different situations.  And since we cannot create that symbolism in the tiitle field the rules state we should use the credit block (as Kathy pointed out  )

Two completely different and unrelated situations.  But only related in the fact you do not agree in the end result.

Both are very clear and handled in the rules.

Your attempt amd motiviation to compare the two is obvious.  And your just want to fuel and flame an argument at this point, trying to use the arguments from one to get the other.



I am now hoing back to saying out of this 

Thanks, best post in the whole damn thread!

Quoting Mole:

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Quoting TheDarkKnight:

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Quoting Mole:

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Quoting Mark Harrison:

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I think the #1 rule that should override every other rule out there is to not enter bad data (though I prefer your wording ).  If you feel a rule is causing you to enter bad data, you should stop and get clarification.

But is that not exactly what Yves is doing with his poll? Seeking clarification?

By leaving out the option that is supported by the rules???? You are kidding, aren't you?

Sorry which option is that? The option which ADDS an extra character to what is seen on the cover; that which we are obliged to use as source for the title.

Please count the number of "S"s....One or two?

I explained that before and scooter did too. Maybe you should read the thread before posting in it. You are wasting my time if you don't read before posting.