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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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I hope all you European people are right! |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
all I suggest is personal verification of your data against the clone and include that info in your notes. Please. Quote:
if I can ever contribute again and I find a profile which was correct but corrupted by someone cloning, I would request the user be banned from contributing This is your way of suggesting nicely???   Do you ever actually read what you write? Quote:
I have spent tens of thousands of hours auditing profiles This is a prime example how far Skippoland is from the earth we other live in. Let's say that "tens of thousands of hours" = 30000 hours. That means 7 years doing "only" 12 hours/day. One may believe it.... or not. | | | | Last edited: by Kulju |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
the company forbade the IDE of IMDb as a datasource
A minor point: The rules don't specifically forbid IMDb, but rather all "third party databases". That does of course include IMDb. Your statement could be construed as Invelos pointing out IMDb as having especially erroneous data, but there is no foundation for that. Gunnar An equally minor point. The time period I eS talki.g about was pre-rules. And there was indeeda strict prohibition written into the old. Guidelines forbidding the use of IMDb data, expressly IMDb. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Kulju
Do you have any idea about being decent or are you just an hmmmm with your head stuck so far up your bum you cant see daylight.. you arent even worth the effort any more. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Gunnar
An equally minor point. The time period I eS talki.g about was pre-rules. And there was indeeda strict prohibition written into the old. Guidelines forbidding the use of IMDb data, expressly IMDb. I am sorry Skip, but based on the archived copy of the DVD Profiler Contribution Guidelines at DougWeb, that simply isn't true. The only mention of IMDb, is the same one that is in the current rules..."Do not use IMDB-style roman numerals in actor names." | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I for one, do not have a problem with copying cast/crew from another profile. What I do have a problem with is submitting that information without checking it. Just to be clear, this isn't the practice we are talking about. While it was what the OP started out with, we are now talking about doing the following... Audit cast and crew for a title you ownDownload every profile, from every region, for that titleCopy & paste the cast and crew data from your profile to all those profilesUpload all those profiles stating that you got the cast and crew from the end creditsRepeat for next title | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Lol.martian your funny sometimes. The guideline archive you refer to was the last One from 2005. The time frame I am talking about is 2002. Do you really think you cantell me that I dont know what triggered the thought about using something other than IMDb. Thats not a smart thing to do. I do know what it said, I remember my surprise at finding it and my reactions. You are treading in dangerous territory, my friend. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Btw martian. I suggest you put the question to ken. I know what he will tell you, then you can publicly apologize for being in error. Do you not remember all the talks at intervocative with me talking about the risks involved in using such data. Whew
On fact, amigo, that was not even the original format ofthe gidelines and originally they had no where near that kind of depth. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Lol.martian your funny sometimes. The guideline archive you refer to was the last One from 2005. The time frame I am talking about is 2002. Seriously? Are you trying to tell me that, prior to the new rules being released...which happened in 2005, Ken changed the guidelines to remove the ban on the use of IMDb? I would love to see those guidelines as I was around in 2002 and distinctly remember that copying data from IMDb was a very common practice...DVDProfilercast anyone? Quote:
Do you really think you cantell me that I dont know what triggered the thought about using something other than IMDb. I don't believe I told you anything...other than what the guidelines said about IMDb. Quote:
Thats not a smart thing to do. I do know what it said, I remember my surprise at finding it and my reactions. You are treading in dangerous territory, my friend. I don't know what dangerous territory you are talking about, but the ban on IMDb for anything came in 2005. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Although I understand and can apprechiate their thoughts on cloning, I'm going to respectfully disagree with my friends Jimmy and Neal's posts.
The reason I use profiler is because it is a user based program. I like that there is a community of movie lovers who want share their work with me via the contribution process.
Rarely do I see contributions from third parties any more. Usually it is from a contribution that was submitted long ago. Edit: It is important to note this data is allowed under certain circumstances.
I've even seen contributions made, containing such data, from people who revile that usage today.
Sometimes a contribution pops up from a new member who hasn't quite gotten the hang of the contribution process. I've found a "no" vote and/or a pm with an explanation easily solves this problem.
Of course there are always going to be those who what to take the easy way out but, in my experience, they are few and far between.
With very few exceptions I have found that the community consists of honest people who do the work according to the rules and guidelines invelos has in place.
So, when their documentation notes that Cast and Crew data was copied from the DVD's credits, I believe them.
And, since invelos' policy allows the community to take this data and copy it to a profile I am updating, I am going to do so.
If I wanted to do all the work, why do I need a community based program?
If every person needs to double check all the data, then why bother utilizing the communities efforts at all? Or, for that matter, why bother contributing?
I have read and re-read posts who prefer that contributions not be done that way. And, I will continue to listen to the rationale of those who disagree.
But, as long as I am following invelos' policies and the documentation notes that the data was from the DVD, I am going to continue to use the work of others. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Lol.martian your funny sometimes. The guideline archive you refer to was the last One from 2005. The time frame I am talking about is 2002.
Seriously? Are you trying to tell me that, prior to the new rules being released...which happened in 2005, Ken changed the guidelines to remove the ban on the use of IMDb? I would love to see those guidelines as I was around in 2002 and distinctly remember that copying data from IMDb was a very common practice...DVDProfilercast anyone?
Quote:
Do you really think you cantell me that I dont know what triggered the thought about using something other than IMDb.
I don't believe I told you anything...other than what the guidelines said about IMDb.
Quote:
Thats not a smart thing to do. I do know what it said, I remember my surprise at finding it and my reactions. You are treading in dangerous territory, my friend.
I don't know what dangerous territory you are talking about, but the ban on IMDb for anything came in 2005. Yes seriously. Ill saY iit again martian. Ask ken. I know what he will tell you,, then you can publicly apologize. You dont know half what you think you do. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Kathy:
I cant even begin to explain what your post sounds like. Bit what you demonstste vis your post and some of the questions you raised only indicate to me that you want it easy, quality of product takes a back seat. You will take anything that is easy, including poor documentation. Makes me want to cry. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
If I wanted to do all the work, why do I need a community based program? Agreed!!! However, the only reason I started doing full audits of my films was because I, over a period of time, discovered that the information in my profiles was wrong. I did some investigation and found that, at that time, most of the data was from IMDB. Since then things have improved. However, not to the extent where I can accept a profile and leave it. In the last year I have found ONE profile that was 99.9% correct (the error being the audio tracks in the wrong order). ONE PROFILE IN A YEAR. Now, maybe if I didn't do full audits I wouldn't notice this sort of thing. But, because I go through every single field I notice how many mistakes (many probably honest) are made. Likewise, I see how much data is submitted that MUST be deliberate despite being wrong or against the rules entirely. Do you see where I'm coming from? I wouldn't bother saying anything if this was an occasional occurrence; but it's not. Maybe my work ethic is different to other people, I don't know. But, if I'm going to do something then I'm going to do it to the best of my ability and abide by any rules relating to the task. I don't care if all you submit is the audio tracks or the overview or do a full audit; what you DO submit MUST be correct and within the rules. But, in my experience (nearly as long as Skip) that is NOT what is happening. Most users who contribute don't care about what they're doing or the quality of their submissions. They just want to submit something - and, unfortunately, most users are happy to accept this rubbish into their local databases. Maybe I should care less. Hopefully, it's clearer where I'm coming from. As for Martians' post...I also totally disagree with cloning a profile and submitting it to all localities - and anyone who does this is simply an arrogant moron. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Most users who contribute don't care about what they're doing or the quality of their submissions. They just want to submit something - and, unfortunately, most users are happy to accept this rubbish into their local databases. I would have to strongly disagree on this point. Most submissions I see are honest and for the most part correct. Newcomers do make mistakes but voting or PM them usually takes care of business. I also realize that someone's definition of 100% correct is nothing absolute since it's almost impossible today for two people to read the rules in exactly the same way, and I'm not even counting the things that are not even covered by the current rules. Indeed, I often see long time users submitting highly questionable data based on their own preferences or reading of the ruiles, and this is allowed to go on, probably because most people seem to think they do more good than damage to the database. I tend to agree with this, even though I disagree of their practice. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
As for Martians' post...I also totally disagree with cloning a profile and submitting it to all localities - and anyone who does this is simply an arrogant moron. I guess it would depend on the quality of the data it replaces. If it's IMDb data, I don't see how we would be worse of for accepting cloning. And of course, your insults are not needed.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Kathy:
I cant even begin to explain what your post sounds like. Bit what you demonstste vis your post and some of the questions you raised only indicate to me that you want it easy, quality of product takes a back seat. You will take anything that is easy, including poor documentation. Makes me want to cry. I don't see it that way. I'm sure there are a few contributors that she trust, as I do, and I feel no need in double checking there work unless something obvious stands out. Most of the DVD's that I know I need to check the data for are from the years when you contributed, because IMDB was accepted then. No fault on anyone's part, it was an accepted practice. But no one has updated them in the last 4 or 5 years with the new standards. And when I personally go through all 4500 of my DVD's, I'll be happy. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,463 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Kathy:
I cant even begin to explain what your post sounds like. Bit what you demonstste vis your post and some of the questions you raised only indicate to me that you want it easy, quality of product takes a back seat. You will take anything that is easy, including poor documentation. Makes me want to cry. Mr. Smith, I don't understand this attack on Kathy. What I understood her to mean was: "I follow the rules." And I also understood: "If you distrust collaborative efforts, what is the point of collaboration?" In lieu of a personal attacks, I would find it interesting to understand how you disagree with the issues she rasies, which I also think are valid. In other words: (1) If a person follows the rules (and you believe them), what grounds do you have to attack the person, just because you don't like the rules? Shouldn't you rather spend time trying to change the rules? (2) What is the true value of a collaborative database effort, if the only contributions you trust are your own? | | | Thanks for your support.
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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