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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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The Avengers or Marvel's The Avengers |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
But in Marvel's The Avengers, the on-screen title shot doesn't have the rectangular red Marvel logo. It has Marvel's The Avengers. And the Rules about possessives are for Title (DVD Title) there is nothing in the Original Title section about possessives. You are correct. Quote:
The Original Title field serves two general purposes, but in both cases allows for the tracking of the original feature title. The original feature title, meaning the title as seen in theaters, was NOT Marvel's The Avengers. It was The Avengers, with the rectangular Marvel logo above it. Quote:
For profiles which have an alternate title displayed on the cover, use the title from the film's credits. For titles released outside their country of origin, use the original release title.
In cases where the title is the original title, leave the Original Title field blank.
And the opening credit title matches the DVD title in this case because in the credit block it reads "Marvel's The Avengers" If the opening credit title matches the DVD title, then it doesn't have an alternate title displayed on the cover. Since it doesn't, you don't use the title from the film's credits, you use the actual title that was used when it was released in theaters. Quote:
I should not have to make a case for following the rules. But, as I just explained, you aren't, in my opinion, following the rules. Quote:
Tell me why "Marvel's" is not part of the original title. Use the title from the film's credits, which I did. It doesn't state anything about possessives, font size, style, run together, or color changes, that is for the DVD title, not original title. See above. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | I didn't see it in the theaters, so I can't verify that. Movie posters and trailers are not justified evidence of what the screen title actually is.
Addicted said in a previous post that he was going by memory only seeing it once in the theater, that he remembers Marvel's The Avengers twice in the theater credits.
I've never seen any proof of what the theater screen credit is. All I can go by is hard evidence which is what is on the DVD. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
I didn't see it in the theaters, so I can't verify that. I did, and I can. Quote:
Movie posters and trailers are not justified evidence of what the screen title actually is. I have to disagree. Absent a copy of the actual film, I find them to be evidence enough for me. Quote:
Addicted said in a previous post that he was going by memory only seeing it once in the theater, that he remembers Marvel's The Avengers twice in the theater credits. I remember it differently and the posters and trailers back that up for me. Quote:
I've never seen any proof of what the theater screen credit is. All I can go by is hard evidence which is what is on the DVD. Except that isn't hard evidence of what the theater screen credit is. It is hard evidence of what the DVD credit is, but not of what the theater screen credit is. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
I didn't see it in the theaters, so I can't verify that.
I did, and I can.
Quote:
Movie posters and trailers are not justified evidence of what the screen title actually is.
I have to disagree. Absent a copy of the actual film, I find them to be evidence enough for me.
Quote:
Addicted said in a previous post that he was going by memory only seeing it once in the theater, that he remembers Marvel's The Avengers twice in the theater credits.
I remember it differently and the posters and trailers back that up for me.
Quote:
I've never seen any proof of what the theater screen credit is. All I can go by is hard evidence which is what is on the DVD.
Except that isn't hard evidence of what the theater screen credit is. It is hard evidence of what the DVD credit is, but not of what the theater screen credit is. Outside of DVDP world means nothing unless there is documentation to back it up. Lack of evidence means it didn't happen. What you may or may not have seen inside a theater is mute per the rules. It's all about what can be documented. So if that is proper reasoning for decisions than any film that was showed at a film fest under a working title that is different than the widespread release title would be the original title because DVDP counts film fest showings as legit theatrical showings. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Outside of DVDP world means nothing unless there is documentation to back it up. Lack of evidence means it didn't happen. You unwillingness to accept the documentation doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did, in fact, happen. Quote:
What you may or may not have seen inside a theater is mute per the rules. Please be so kind as to point me to the rule that states my visual identification is moot. The rules call for the original feature title and the only place to get that is by visually seeing it in the theater. Quote:
It's all about what can be documented. Indeed it is, and I can document it. Not documented to your satisfaction doesn't mean undocumented. Quote:
So if that is proper reasoning for decisions than any film that was showed at a film fest under a working title that is different than the widespread release title would be the original title because DVDP counts film fest showings as legit theatrical showings. A working title, by definition, is not a theatrical release title. It is a working...read temporary...title. I understand that you don't agree, but making disparaging remarks in this thread, and in your contribution notes, simply because you don't agree is really unnecessary. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Outside of DVDP world means nothing unless there is documentation to back it up. Lack of evidence means it didn't happen.
You unwillingness to accept the documentation doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did, in fact, happen.
Quote:
What you may or may not have seen inside a theater is mute per the rules.
Please be so kind as to point me to the rule that states my visual identification is moot. The rules call for the original feature title and the only place to get that is by visually seeing it in the theater.
Quote:
It's all about what can be documented.
Indeed it is, and I can document it. Not documented to your satisfaction doesn't mean undocumented.
Quote:
So if that is proper reasoning for decisions than any film that was showed at a film fest under a working title that is different than the widespread release title would be the original title because DVDP counts film fest showings as legit theatrical showings.
A working title, by definition, is not a theatrical release title. It is a working...read temporary...title.
I understand that you don't agree, but making disparaging remarks in this thread, and in your contribution notes, simply because you don't agree is really unnecessary. I stand by my "Disparaging" remarks. |
| | Registered: October 22, 2015 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 274 |
| | Posted: | | | | There are some who assert "The Avengers" is the original film title - this is a myth!
I was surprised no one could find a definitive reference to prove the original title was "Marvel's The Avengers".
Rules such as possessives, font sizes and quotes for the original title in the film's screen credits are irrelevant? Those rules ONLY apply to the printed title on the front cover.
Its the movie producer who determines the film's title, and there is nothing stopping them from embedding a brand name (such as Marvel, Disney, MGM) in the title, some existing legitimate examples being DISNEY's THE KID (2000) and DISNEY'S A CHRISTMAS CAROL (2009).
So lets look at the facts, the film's screen credits:
1. The opening credits at run time (00:11:45) displays the following title page:
_______________
MARVEL'S
THE AVENGERS
_______________
At this stage, I still wasn't sure.
2. The end credits at run time (02:22:06) displays the film's copyright:
_______________________________________________________________
"Marvel's The Avengers", the Movie © 2012 MVL Film Finance LLC.
_______________________________________________________________
The film title is in quotes in the copyright credits, that is unambiguous.
So what other corroborative evidence could I find?
3. The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences (AMPAS) nominated the film "Marvel's The Avengers" for an Academy Award for BEST VISUAL EFFECTS for 2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/85th_Academy_Awards#Awards).
Go to the Official Academy Awards database:
http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/
Enter the title The Avengers and click search, you get one result:
Marvel's The Avengers
Marvel Studios Production; Walt Disney.
2012 (85th) VISUAL EFFECTS -- Janek Sirrs, Jeff White, Guy Williams and Dan Sudick
Yes, its an American production and I think AMPAS are in a better position to know the correct original title for the film. Its this title that gets engraved on the plaque at the bottom of the Oscar statuette.
CONCLUSION
The film credits (both title page and copyright) verify the film's title as "Marvel's The Avengers" and the Academy Awards corroborate this title.
They are the reasons why I am currently voting NO to huskersport's attempt to remove "Marvel's The Avengers" from original title on an Australian profile (titled on the front cover "The Avengers"), as per the rules: "For profiles which have an alternate title displayed on the cover, use the title from the film's credits." |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,638 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ObiKen: Quote:
They are the reasons why I am currently voting NO to huskersport's attempt to remove "Marvel's The Avengers" from original title on an Australian profile (titled on the front cover "The Avengers"), as per the rules: "For profiles which have an alternate title displayed on the cover, use the title from the film's credits." Also, if you look at filmratings.com it lists the title as "Marvel's The Avengers" for certificate # 47486. https://www.filmratings.com/Search?filmTitle=avengers&x=0&y=0 |
| | Registered: December 5, 2007 | | Posts: 360 |
| | Posted: | | | | Background information:
The 1998 film "The Avengers" was based on a British television series that debuted in 1961. That's why the title "Marvel's The Avengers" appears in some countries for the 2012 film. |
| | Registered: October 22, 2015 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 274 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have a simple question (I hope).
If the film premiered at the El Capitan Theatre in Hollywood on 11-Apr-2012:
https://collider.com/avengers-world-premiere/
and was subsequently exhibited:
28-Apr-2012 USA (Tribeca Film festival)
04-May-2012 USA
which one becomes the source for determining the original release title?
If it's the premiere, who in the DVDP community went to that? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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