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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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 Disciplinary Proposal (Locked) |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
it's not like we get a note from the mods telling us how we screwed up. Actually, some get warnings.  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
You are right. That's exactly it. Some of the avatars are outside the realm of what should be acceptable. I agree. They are there though to protest the double standard.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right Quote:
When the mods went after northbloke's avatar while leaving alone the harassing post, that's when the avatars spread in protest.
It started spreading before that. | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
You are right. That's exactly it. Some of the avatars are outside the realm of what should be acceptable. I agree. They are there though to protest the double standard.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right Sometimes disobedience is necessary to show that something else is wrong. Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quote:
When the mods went after northbloke's avatar while leaving alone the harassing post, that's when the avatars spread in protest.
It started spreading before that. Perhaps you are correct. I recall seeing northbloke's avatar and then it was gone and then it was back and then it propagated to others. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Can we stay on topic guys? If we start talking about particullar case we will gain only one thing : The moderator will lock this discussion and nothing good will come out of it. For a rare occassion where we have a respectfull discussion, it would be sad to see it lock.  Why not used the long thread about the moderation trial to talk about the particullar exemple of bad moderation  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Once again, we're treated to random moderation. I don't know what I said wrong. i've said much stronger things in posts that weren't moderated and it's not like we get a note from the mods telling us how we screwed up. As I recall your post, rather than naming a type of behavior, your referred to a non-specific person by namecalling. Kind of like writing "you're a liar" instead of "what you wrote was a lie." You can target misbehavior with little chance of moderation (especially if you can reasonably explain the misbehavior), but not call them by the name we would associate with that misbehavior. If I write a lie now ("The moon is made of green cheese") when you point out that lie, I can apologize for the lie and admit to it. Telling one lie is far different than being a liar. One assumes a liar will tell lies more than tell the truth. So if I wrote that lie and you called me a liar, you most likely would get censored. Even if everything I ever wrote was a lie. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
"The moon is made of green cheese"
Even if everything I ever wrote was a lie. Duh, it's made up of blue-green cheese.  | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server | | | | Last edited: by DoubleDownAgain |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm sorry. I think I was misinformed. I came here for the waters. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting reybr:
Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
You are right. That's exactly it. Some of the avatars are outside the realm of what should be acceptable. I agree. They are there though to protest the double standard.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right
Sometimes disobedience is necessary to show that something else is wrong.
Quoting reybr:
Quote:
Quote:
When the mods went after northbloke's avatar while leaving alone the harassing post, that's when the avatars spread in protest.
It started spreading before that.
Perhaps you are correct. I recall seeing northbloke's avatar and then it was gone and then it was back and then it propagated to others. First Jame4s you must be willing tio admit that YOU are part of the problem, and it is not you alone. We all share blame, if you believe this is about a single user, then all I can say is that really need to loom top yourself before worrying about anyone else. I have said many times that i don't have time or energy for grudges and that is absolutely true, they waste way too much energy. I really feel sorry for all the users around that harbor grudges of one kind or another. I try very hard to treat every post from any user as the first post, this is why I am looking forward to seeing what will transpire with Sam, he seemed to indicate a willingness to try, I hope so. If he can put it behind him, I know I can, the same stands for everyone, at any time. It's up to you. I'll meet you halfway, I have not seen any of you say that to me. The ball is in YOUR court. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
First James you must be willing tio admit that YOU are part of the problem, and it is not you alone. We all share blame.
This is what I said since we talk about moderation on this forum. We are all a part of the problem, myself include (I'm block by at least one user so I ain't white as snow is). The problem is that we are too proud to admit our wrongdoing (is it the word?) most of the time. This is why we need a strict code of conduct equally applied to everyone and a strict policy to teach us how to behave correctly. edit : After 38 months it's my post #1000  | | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Based on the poll results, 47 to 5, it is obvious that community feels that some type of disciplinary actions are needed in some form. I would like to get a consensus on the exact proposal that will be presented to Ken.
I understand that there might be some hard feelings on the part of those who feel that things should stay the way they are. But, I ask that you put aside those feelings and work together to try and make this proposal acceptable to all.
In order to accomplish this goal, it is vital that we present this in a proactive, calm and rationale way. It might help if the word "you" is not used and the word "I" is substituted. The first is accusatory while the the second is explanatory.
"You are rude", "You never listen", "You are the problem", "It's your fault" etc. are a few examples of what I mean by "you" being accusatory in nature.
On the other hand, "I was hurt by what was said", "Let me see if I understand", "I don't see it that way" etc. are a different way to get a point across.
It might also be helpful that red or green arrows be used frequently during this process. It will alert Ken to postings and how they are received by the community.
Instead of arguing or defending one's position, I would like to try and find areas in which agreements might be reached. In order to achieve this we must be diligent in what we say and how we say it. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sorry Kathy, I object to the red or green arrows. Here is the reason, I hope I can explain it properly. It is my opinion that some users have banned together to misbehave and vote themselves green arrows and vote others reds en masse. This has resulted in several users getting undeserved, in my book, stars. I saw this played in another forum, where a group of users ganged up on two other vocal users and played a very evil game that was similar to this system in order to try and drive out people who disagreed. I have seen the same thing happen and we have lost users by people being allowed to play to this game, others of us have decided it is no longer appropriate to Contribute to the database as a direct result or indirect result of this insanity.
Kathy the problem with the arguing from my viewpoint is that 98% of the time we aren't debating or discussing, we are talking AT each other. IN fact there are few times when I feel like a given point I am making is being understood, I blame that on myself and restate. I have said this many,many times and it remains true, I see very few instances where I have the feeling that what I am saying is understood. In order to find areas of agreement, then the sides of a discussion must be understood, otherwise there is no foundation for discussion and agreement and instead of debating, people talk at each other. While I blame myself in these cases and will state and restate and reformulate an argument simply looking for some inkling of comprehension, I find it hard to believe that what i say is not understood, and that is ultimately hurtful as well. . All too sadly I am also aware that there are people who will take a different position from my own, just because I have stated an opinion, unfortunately this has several times taken the database is VERY VERY bad directions. I have proven this to be true myself on a number of occasions, just to see what happens, this also tends to follow a very predictable pattern and it is a select group of users, the sameones everytime and very predictable.
Kathy I also will not say not could I count the number of times that I have been "hurt" by things said in these forums, usually I feel they undeserved or misunderstood, but it is frequent and not appreciated in the slightest. I have also told you publicly that i viewed, and still do some of your comments to be unbalanced, you will make comments directed at me, while ignoring the crass behavior of others and the riles me, no matter who it is. I am not going to usually say that "you" hurt my feelings, there are people who take great pleasure in that and I refuse to grant them that pleasure.
In | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 599 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Based on the poll results, 47 to 5, it is obvious that community feels that some type of disciplinary actions are needed in some form. I would like to get a consensus on the exact proposal that will be presented to Ken. I think that while a heavy majority is in favor of the guidelines I proposed, I feel that those who agreed with the need for action, but felt it too severe should be placated in the final proposal. Therefore, I've changed some of the original limits and their respective punishments... Quote:
Moderated post = 1st warning = verbal warning and 30 day probationary period
2nd moderated post in probationary period = 24 hour ban and 60 day probationary period
3rd moderated post in probationary period = 72 hour ban and 90 probationary period
4th moderated post in probationary period = 7 day ban and 6 month probationary period
5th moderated post in probationary period = 30 day ban and 1 year probationary period
6th moderated post in probationary period = 60 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
7th moderated post in probationary period = 90 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
8th moderated post in probationary period = 120 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
9th moderated post in probationary period = 180 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
10th moderated post in probationary period = 1 year ban and probationary period of 2 year
If you have one of your posts moderated because you quoted a post that was moderated, it would not fall under these quidelines. For those who weren't happy with the thought of a permanent ban, does this alteration make you more inclined to accept it as a final proposal? If someone actually gets to the 10th level, then that person has definitely proven to be a detriment to the forum community and a 1 year ban is justified. | | | | Last edited: by Antares |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with Antares' revised proposal even more. Personally, I am for banning in some situations, but I understand that there are those against it.
While I think Antares' new suggested guidelines is too lenient, I'm comfortable in knowing that I'm in the minority, and it's not that big of an issue for me to hash it out for stronger punishments. As long as some sort of moderation, moderation that is desperately needed is kicked in and followed through with, I'm happy.
There's a lot of back and forth here of who's to blame and such, but the bottom line is ~90% of the people who participated in the poll think that moderation is needed, regardless of who did what or said what.
I think DoubleDownAgain mentioned somewhere along the lines that everyone wins with moderation, and I agree with him.
If one can look through all the fingerpointing and blaming, everyone is saying virtually the same thing: please knock it off (albeit to different people). Strong, fair and consistent moderation would knock this off on all sides, so everyone wins. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm also more than happy to support the amended proposal.
Personally I don't really want to see anyone banned, I just expect people to treat others with the respect they expect from them. I've always been a fan of the quote from the Water Babies: "Do as you would be done by."
I'm also confused by the accusations of an alleged "agenda". Whether some users have an agenda or not is irrelevant to the proposal as the important thing to remember is that the moderators DO NOT have an agenda, and as long as all users are treated the same that's more than enough for me. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
I have said many times that i don't have time or energy for grudges and that is absolutely true, they waste way too much energy. I really feel sorry for all the users around that harbor grudges of one kind or another. I try very hard to treat every post from any user as the first post, this is why I am looking forward to seeing what will transpire with Sam, he seemed to indicate a willingness to try, I hope so. If he can put it behind him, I know I can, the same stands for everyone, at any time. It's up to you. I'll meet you halfway, I have not seen any of you say that to me. The ball is in YOUR court. I am sorry, but your previous posts belie this one. From here, "Relative to james, as far as I am concerned he made his own bed, he knows the history and you don't." Here, "As for your feeling sorry for James, there's no need, James is a big boy, there are issues there which i will not go into, but that you are completely unaware, all i will say is that James is NOT the innocent that you think he is, but then you don't have the information, full and complete that would allow for valid judgement," And here, "James you are so full of it. You lost your credibility YEARS ago, bubba. You know how to count beans I have no doubt...but that's about your limit." And this final one, "Why are people voting yes to removal of CORRECT data? James?" There are plenty more, but you get the point. You talk about credibility, not holding grudges and treating every post as if it is a users first post, yet seem to be holding a pretty strong grudge against James. While you don't seem to see it, you have waged a fairly strong campaign of harassment aimed at James. I am quite sure that you see it the other way, but my final example should make it crystal clear as you didn't mention any other user...just James. I am sorry if this offends you, as that was not my intent, though I am fully expecting to get hammered for it. I will, however, be showing self restraint and will not respond. I am also sorry if this drags the thread off topic, but I couldn't let this one go.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 767 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Antares: Quote:
Moderated post = 1st warning = verbal warning and 30 day probationary period
2nd moderated post in probationary period = 24 hour ban and 60 day probationary period
3rd moderated post in probationary period = 72 hour ban and 90 probationary period
4th moderated post in probationary period = 7 day ban and 6 month probationary period
5th moderated post in probationary period = 30 day ban and 1 year probationary period
6th moderated post in probationary period = 60 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
7th moderated post in probationary period = 90 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
8th moderated post in probationary period = 120 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
9th moderated post in probationary period = 180 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
10th moderated post in probationary period = 1 year ban and probationary period of 2 year
And ofcourse, at the 11th moderated post, there will be the double secret probation. Tell them, Dean Wormer!  |
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