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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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A New Forum? |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I didn't contradict anything I have said. That is a quote from the rules only. and as I said... some things in the rules I agree with. Some things I do not. And it does not say not to contribute. It says not to contribute your different data. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I didn't contradict anything I have said. That is a quote from the rules only. and as I said... some things in the rules I agree with. Some things I do not. And it does not say not to contribute. It says not to contribute your different data. I'll try to understand your point of view - you cite rules that say "do not contribute your different data" - you see as "a problem that said older profiles and such were not corrected per his clarification." so you want people to do what I wrote: 1/ change in their local good data with fictitious data 2/ contribute a change of the profile per new clarification, 3/ change back in local to restore old correct data 4/ lock their profile to avoid to be polluted by their own contribution. But the fact is that most people who own titles with accented names do not do that. Only a few contributors change profiles that they do not own, avoiding to mess their own database, and just messing others' database which are not locked. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I do it all the time. Submit the way per Ken's rules and clarifications and keep what I prefer locally only. But when it comes to others contributing I want nothing more then the contributions to be correct and accurate per Ken's rules and clarifications. I would never ask anyone to contribute if they do not wish to.
But at the same time to be here trying to block us from making it easier to do things per Ken's rules and clarifications just because you don't like his decisions is not acceptable in my opinion. In effect you said you are against this idea because it will help people change profiles (whether they own the profile or not) to how Ken said he wanted it. Well in my eyes that is a good thing. The online database gets closer to what Ken wants... I think that is great whether or not I agree with the data that is there. Why? because I see it as it is meant... a starting place from which I can change it to suit my purposes. Nothing more and nothing less. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Well in my eyes that is a good thing. The online database gets closer to what Ken wants... We come back to what I said before : users pay Ken, and not the contrary. Ken will get what he wants if he finds people who accept to contribute data he wants. As long as he decides rules that prevent people to contribute, do not be astonished that old profiles that were correctly accented with old good rules are not changed with new rules that do not please people. Those people paid the program and have no reason to make work they particularly dislike. If Ken wanted to pay me to remove accents in my profiles and contribute them, I'm even sure not to accept (... could depend of the price, after all...  ) | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | He obviously does have people willing to make the changes... or you wouldn't be complaining. And before you say it. The fact of whether or not they have that particular release just don't matter per Ken.
And I still believe it don't matter... all we paid for is the license to use the software. What is to be submitted to the online database is (as it should be) up to Ken. I will contribute to his wishes now... just like I would contribute to his wishes if he changes his mind in the future/ | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm in favor of a Forum dedicated to Zang Ziyi  |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Battling Butler: Quote:
I'm in favor of a Forum dedicated to Zang Ziyi You mean Ziyi//Zhang ??? I agree with the idea | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
When I pay for a program, I expect to have what I want, not to work to give the guy I paid what he wants... There's quite an easy solution for this: Buy a program where you get what you want and don't try to change a program that has a completely different basis to your preferences. I hate to say it, but again you hijacked a thread that had a completely valid proposal to change it to your well known favourite topic. Whether you like it or not the topics discussed in the "common name"-threads are completely rule-compatible, while your approach is not. So your real point in denying the right of this threads to exist (within a separate forum or within the contribution discussion), is that you'd like to keep your local data as you have it now. So what?? Lock your profiles!! Or even better: Change to a program where you get what you want. Oh man, you won't believe how glad I am that I'd probably never have you as a customer. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
So what?? Lock your profiles!! Or even better: Change to a program where you get what you want. Oh man, you won't believe how glad I am that I'd probably never have you as a customer. I've always written that dvdprofiler is a great program, that fulfills in local all my needs (even more, there are lots of features as dividers, boxsets, obscure crew, that I do not use, but it is perfect if other users like them). On the other hand, the online database is a mess. I think I gave a clear explanation for why the accent problem is so bad, and the only answer I had is from a user that is ready to accept anything just to please Ken. I have nothing against the fact to please Ken, but we are customers, and allowed to say what we think. I'm sure that if the database was better, particularly with a good linking, the product would be globally better, and in final Ken would be the winner. I think I gave sufficiently of my time to share data with others, contributing half of my collection as first complete profiles, sharing translations, layouts, images of movies, to have the right to point out the bad quality of the linking of the online database (a recent poll show that I'm not alone to have this opinion), and to repeat what is the main cause of this problem, at least for collections that contain a lot of non Hollywood movies. I do not think I hijacked anything in this thread. It is a request, some users like it and said why, I do not like it and I say why. The problem is that when you are not with the majority, you are accused to hijack threads... You should see "Agora", and think about Hypatia being stripped naked and lapidated to death because she dared to suggest Earth turns around the sun, and not universe around Earth... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
I know it was mentioned in some thread, somewhere, at some point... but that thread is... who knows where now.
Was wondering how many people would support a new forum for a) Common Name Threads and b) Profiles that are in desperate need of an update.
Say for instance someone doesn't want to receive a beat-down for updating profiles they don't own. They could post a request thread for users to check their profiles of a specific film, and if needed, to update that profile (or in another case, the poster could refer to a profile they recently updated, and a user from a different locality could simply check their profile against the recently updated profile to ensure they match, and then either could update the profile in question).
I also make a TON of use of the common name threads that are posted by helpful users trying to clean up some of the bad info in the system, and it would be nice to have them all collected in one place. I know we have a pinned thread in the contributions forum that lists them all, but a forum for this could clear some of the clutter of the numerous threads that get posted (and lost amongst the arguements), and it would make it easier to continually update the Credited As database as needed.
... I like the idea of having these things in one Forum.  |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
It is a request, some users like it and said why, I do not like it and I say why. The problem was that you stated to not only dislike the request (separate forum for common name discussions), but to dislike the discussions on this topic as such because it Quote:
[...]is the cause of the failure of our (non) linking system. To replace correct names by fictitious names just because a credit maker made a typo, or a contributor uncorrectly transformed capitalized letters, is a hard work for those who do it and a pain for other database users who have to correct in their local false downloaded information.[...] This in fact had nothing to do with the proposal (except that both posts were remotely connected to "common names") and by this can be seen as hijacking. If you simply would have stated that you don't think it's needed to establish a new forum, because, hmm, it might cause more problems than it solves, it would have been perfectly OK, other users did so (tweeter for example) and by this added value to the discussion as such. BTW: You very often say that your concept would improve the linking and still failed to say how this would happen. All I can see is that we might (in some cases) get a different name to link to, but the linking as such (which you correctly observed to be "a mess") will not be affected by this. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
BTW: You very often say that your concept would improve the linking and still failed to say how this would happen. All I can see is that we might (in some cases) get a different name to link to, but the linking as such (which you correctly observed to be "a mess") will not be affected by this. BTW: has this anything to do with the thread? Aren't you hijacking the thread?  I personally think that if no comments are autorised, no discussion will never bring anything allowing to improve the system. Using the "hijacking" accusation is just a way to try to censor opposite opinions. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,738 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I personally think that if no comments are autorised, no discussion will never bring anything allowing to improve the system. You also haven't brought forth anything that would improve the system. You just want to enter an on-screen "FRANCOIS" credit as "François" into DVD Profiler, while Ken explicitly told us not to. Your personal preference to keep doing so is *not* a solution to the linking problem. Having said that, the linking system is almost constantly under discussion - but in the appropriate places ( here, for instance) This is not one of them. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
BTW: has this anything to do with the thread?/ NO Quote:
Aren't you hijacking the thread? As you might have realized the main part of my post was remotely on topic, I simply added a sidenote, which might be considered to be hijacking, so I guess the overall answer is "No" again. Quote:
I personally think that if no comments are autorised, no discussion will never bring anything allowing to improve the system. Using the "hijacking" accusation is just a way to try to censor opposite opinions. And once more you mix things up: Comments are allowed, even negative comments on the the proposal. This is a discussion after all. What is not allowed is to take a thread astray. If you would open your own thread trying to discuss your favourite topic you wouldn't see any hijacking accusations from me (you would find me among your critics though ), neither would that have been the case, if the topic would have been a discussion on common names as such. But in this case where the original topic was something completely different it is hijacking, not more not less. So open your own thread and see what results may come, but please stop forcing other threads onto your favourite topic. We all know your point very well, some of us might even share it (I don't), so there really is no need to bump it in every remotely related thread. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Having said that, the linking system is almost constantly under discussion - but in the appropriate places (here, for instance) This is not one of them. Yes, and I was very happy to see how many times Ken gave his opinion in this thread, when at the same time he opened several threads and discussed several times per day about non rated/unrated/non rated. Trying to make work a system that doesn't work just tells to Ken, "don't worry, everything is perfect and we, users, are making it work without problem", and this is the main reason why I am against this new forum, and also quite sure that Ken will open it. Sorry to have derailed this thread once again. I PMed my answer to Goblinsdoitall, and at this occasion saw I could not do the same for you. BTW, I do not think that blocking me twice works better than once, but you are probably right to be extremely careful ... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,738 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Trying to make work a system that doesn't work just tells to Ken, "don't worry, everything is perfect and we, users, are making it work without problem", and this is the main reason why I am against this new forum, and also quite sure that Ken will open it. I'm sure Ken has taken note of the many threads discussing the "linking system". And by all means: keep doing so (just not here, please). But at the moment, this is the only linking we've got, so I'll be trying to make the best of it. Locally, I already have it working perfectly - with the data being fully in line with the rules, I might add. The online database will take longer to catch up, but that is true for any kind of change: one profile is easily fixed, fixing half a million of them is automatically going to take a bit longer. It doesn't matter if you think we will never ever get there - that might very well be true. The same could be said for anything else, like weeding out all IMDb-mined profiles: that may never happen, too (new IMDb-mined data is still getting in the database daily). The point is: this is what we have, these are the rules, and while you're welcome to campaign for a different system (just not here), there is really no point in opposing a special subforum to discuss common name, parsing and birth year issues. WHERE we talk about these things doesn't change the system we have. |
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