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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Creditd As Option |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim:
It depends on just how one defines useful information. Is it useful to have the data exactly as it appears On Screen...certainly. I sthere anything wrong with your theory or Neill's...no not ingherently. personally i think we should still scrap the existing Alias system, which is totally dependent on all users following the Rules to give accurate results, in favor of the simple association system. This would be primarily a local decision, BUT the data woiuld still be sharable and documentable...but has the advantage of not being at all dependent on any sort of USER generated priority (Common) name.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
It depends on just how one defines useful information. I define "useful" to be when a random user downloads 10 random profiles with Robert Downey, Jr. in it, and he clicks on the guy's name in one of them, that the other nine show up as well - even though a few of those credits use a comma, others don't, and in one of them he's not even credited with the suffix at all. If those credits are all correctly linked together in the master database, THEN we've achieved useful data, IMHO. I couldn't care less about how we get there - as long as we get there. What method we use to work towards that goal doesn't matter, but it should be obvious that making whatever method we use "optional" certainly won't help... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | That is uesful and Neill has a different definition. And their is nothing wrong with his, anymore than there is yours. The problem with yours as you and I have discused before is that we are hamstrung by the inmplementation that was executed which is depemdent on ALL users submitting Rule compliant data, and the screeners absolutely refusing to allow data that is not properly documented as being Rule compliant. <shrugs>
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Making linking an entirely local option - which I feel your request boils down to - is certainly not what I'd like to see. As you are aware this was initially my viewpoint on the Credited As. However, contrary to what you may believe, I did listen to and take onboard the views of others who did NOT want this to be a local only feature. In effect I understood where they were coming from. That (and only that) is the reason why I came up with the possibility of making this feature optional. Thereby giving everyone the option to accept or decline the information. I am not a programmer. I have no idea if it is even possible to implement this sort of change to the program; and from what I can ascertain from your posts neither do you. So, once again this comes back to Ken stating whether it's even possible. Until that time I, personally, think your standpoint is one that is purely selfish as it only benefits some users and NOT all. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
That is uesful and Neill has a different definition. And their is nothing wrong with his, anymore than there is yours. The problem with yours as you and I have discused before is that we are hamstrung by the inmplementation that was executed which is depemdent on ALL users submitting Rule compliant data, and the screeners absolutely refusing to allow data that is not properly documented as being Rule compliant. <shrugs>
Skip I have to agree with Skip here. 'Useful' is a subjective term that is defined by each person. To claim that a definition of 'useful' is what some random user does is disingenuous. Nobody has any idea what some random user might find useful. All we know is what we find useful. As I have stated before, I don't find the 'as credited' feature all that useful. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim: I have been desperately trying to figure out a way to get the CA system under control and sadly, I think the damage is too great, I don't believe it is fixable, at least not within any kind of rational time frame. I am going to continue brainstorming it...but  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 302 |
| | Posted: | | | | for the protocol. i didn't vote anything, because there was no option that hits my opinion.
In my personal opion, the online-database should only have "as credited"-data and the linking part should be a local issue. (maybe with some automatation gimmicks for identification, but thats should be discussed in another thread, I think)
That would also solve your problem. Because you just have to screen every profile just one time.
Even if there is an online-update, can accept/import it.
If the new entry is biunique it maybe could be linked automatically, if it's not you should link it manually to your local name's database choice. | | | regards, Mad -
My HD-Media, DVDs, Laserdiscs | | | | Last edited: by madacid |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 862 |
| | Posted: | | | | I completely agree with Patheon. I use the Name Variant plug-in and while updating a profile i search for common names and change accordingly. However, sometimes a new, useful, update comes along and i doesnt use the common name for a name i set and thus replaces the common, with the credited names thus breaking the link i set up. My only option now is to remember/wrtie down the change and locally change it again or decline a possible useful contribution.
Personally i choose to decline and write down the title, than i contriubute the title in question and see the correctly changed profile and change everything manually which is a lot of work. Of course i could lock all profiles but with over 3000 titles i'll probably won't be able to check every disc and correct them, locally or not, for a while.
Another problem is that, because the names are locally, when updating a profile a name may not show up in your list and thus you don't even know the person in question may need a common name to begin with. I think all names should be in your list preferably with known variation linked to it. Of course you'd have to researched if they are in fact the same but i'd be a lot easier.
Paul |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
I think all names should be in your list preferably with known variation linked to it. Of course you'd have to researched if they are in fact the same but i'd be a lot easier. I agree, getting credit linking to work would be a lot easier if we were all using the same cast & crew database, rather than the individual databases we have currently. At least we'd all have a common ground to be working from. It may even be possible to introduce a sort of ID numbering system to link actors. For example: a submission could be made saying actor #53 and actor #102 are the same person, and as everyone's #53 and #102 would contain the same names, a valid link would be created. The other benefit of ID numbers is that it creates a unique key for the database, therefore duplicate names (without birth years) would be possible without the credits getting mixed together. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hmmmm that's an intriguing idea, north.
Sounds like a lot of work but intriguing.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I agree, getting credit linking to work would be a lot easier if we were all using the same cast & crew database, rather than the individual databases we have currently. At least we'd all have a common ground to be working from. Well, I wonder whether such a coherent database for cast & crew doesn't already exists... somewhere... I also wonder whether there can be a copyright on the way to present an actor's name. To be more precise, can the owners of a "third party database" pursue me to use "Nicole Kidman", arguying they use "Nicole Kidman"? | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | The copyright would be involved in other areas, even the owner of the "name" cannot copyright their own name, there is a court ruling on that somewhere. They can copyright and control their likeness and its subsequent publication. In the case of dealing with cast and Crew data the easiest place to deal with copyrighting data is through the usage of poison pills, thesee could be inserted virtually anywhere, but the easiest would be through something that is difficult, if not impossible to verify, such as (uncredtied) data. Put in a blind (invented) uncredited piece of data and if it shows up somewhere else, poof you've got them. But there are dozens of different little ploys that can be used for this purpose, Ken is using more than a few of them himself.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
In the case of dealing with cast and Crew data the easiest place to deal with copyrighting data is through the usage of poison pills, thesee could be inserted virtually anywhere, but the easiest would be through something that is difficult, if not impossible to verify, such as (uncredtied) data. I understand that, but if we follow rules, copy cast and crew in the order they appear in the end credits, then verify the names match with the IMDb names, and change the two or three which slightly differ, we would solve 99.9% of the problems. No more Robert Downey Jr., Robert Downey, Jr., Robert Downey Jr, Robert Downey, Jr ... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No, yves. IF IMDb was copying the film credits from the film as we do, then that they would NOT be able to copyright, if there was a Copyright issue there it would belong to the filmmakers, which they would have but would be unlikely to pursue. It would be costly, run for years and the counter argument would be made that being a FILM the data was one of public domain or public knowledge, after all it is right there on screen. As long as we stick with the ON SCREEN data as presented we have no problems.
The big issue with IMDb is that they are one of the most litigious companies on the planet, they will sue if you look at them cross-eyed. Their objective is simply predatory, to force any kind of perceived threat into expending their resources on self-defense, ultimately running them out of business or setting themselves up for a takeover.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
Another problem is that, because the names are locally, when updating a profile a name may not show up in your list and thus you don't even know the person in question may need a common name to begin with. I think all names should be in your list preferably with known variation linked to it. Of course you'd have to researched if they are in fact the same but i'd be a lot easier.
Paul Yea, I don't want all names in my list. I can't imagine how large a file that would be, but I sure don't want to waste space on it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 302 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
No, yves. IF IMDb was copying the film credits from the film as we do, then that they would NOT be able to copyright,... Hm, the data I enter into the imdb sometimes are direktly from the movie-credits. But imdb has anyawy a copyright on it, because I accepted this in their ToU. Same it with the Profiler-DB. With entering data, I give my (copy/data)rights to Invelos. But that has nothing to do with public domain or public knowledge... | | | regards, Mad -
My HD-Media, DVDs, Laserdiscs |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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