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Once again, James you clearly fail to understand the obvious here. The list under discussion does not appear in association with ANY kind of CAST data. It is in fact segregated from the Cast data and listed within the CREW data. You are making the presumption that YOU (tim and others) understand exactly what that means, and further that YOU, who had absolutely ZERO input into the film in ANY WAY understand precisely what the filmmakers intent was. I beg to differ with you , and if you really believe that to be true, that is incredibly arrogant. I have made a suggestion, NOT that you look up a time code for everyone on the list *and I would like to thank Paul for distorting what I said), but ONLY ONE, just ONE. You are uynwiilling to do so, therefore yourt entire argument is completely bogus., because you possess no knowledge which allows you to come to the conclusion you have, what is factual knowledge...is that the data in question falls within the CREW data NOT the Cast data. I am open, I am reasonable, find ONE, ONLY ONE.

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Like I said, James, how do YOU know whether they are Crew credits or not, you have no level of knowledge to determine that, other than your own AASSUMPTION. Again, the data is NOT within the Cast data, it IS within the CREW data. That is the FACT. Anystatement to the contrary is pure supposition based on NOTHING. If someone can provide a time code for just ONE of the people in that list then... we have evidence which I would say reasonably applies to ALL the members of the list, just ONE. By you standard the Special Appearances by Musician are also Cast Roles which is patently untrue, each of these credits must be looked at within the context of its own data set. Not by a supposition which has been invented. I will offer that probably the best place to find any of these people would be the bowling alley sequence at the end of the film, but without any kind of evidence there is absolutely no way that you ( nor any of the others) make any sense whatsoever. The current evidence simply does NOT support the claim. Unless you or someone else can also provide some evidence that they performed some work on this film and thus have special knowledge, but that I am CERTAIN cannot be provided.

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Quoting m.cellophane:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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I had to laugh at Paul's post. Oh it's too hard!!!!         No data will be entered. Her's the difference, Paul, I am intersetde in accurate data, NOT which someone ASSUMES to be correct. If that means I have to find a timecode to back something, so be it, I have done it before and if i ever decide to Contribute will gladly do so in the future, because the data I provide and always have I strive to be accurate for YOU and every other user, anything less quite frankly is garbage, which will not be allowed into my database and should not be allowed in the ONLINE either. Have I made typos, oh hell yes, I am all too human, but the occasional typos aside, when you get data from me you can be assured by my notes that that the data is accurate.

Give me Clive Revill's timecode in The Empire Strikes Back...the nifty new version. If you can't, then let's be accurate and remove his credit since it's no longer a cast credit.

That may well be a valid comment, James. Off hand, I don't know, but it is also an attempt at misdirection to avoid dealing with the FACTS of THIS film.

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You can't know, with respect to this film, whether what you state is correct either, paul. You simply want to disagree, which is normal. I don't appreciate you insuting any of my friends, and if somebody were to insult you i would take exception to that as well, paul.

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Stop ignoring the FACTS and stop complaining about how hard it is, I just can't do it. If you are unwilling to document just one from the list, then you have NO ARGUMENT and the data is CREW plain and simple. And any other comment is completely and utterly irrelevant. I have gotten used to the obfuscation used by yourself and others, but the facts are the facts, and you have provided NOTHING to say otherwise. Were 99% of my library including Kingpin, not packed up and in storage, in preparation for a move (at some point in the future), I would be trying to document this myself, because I am neither to lazy to do so, nor will i cry about how hard it is, which is apparently true of yourself and others, you have said so yourself, paul.

I am not interested in further BS, I am only interested in some documentation for ONE member from that list.

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[...] I'm not arguing for the sake of this single film. I'm arguing for the sake of the system. I don't want this one example to force us to have to prove that cast credits are cast credits for the wide possibilities that are out there from what I've seen in film credits or to force us to prove that credited cast members are actually in the film.

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These are not crew credits in the middle of crew credits. These are cast credits in the middle of crew credits. Their position in the credits does not make them crew since there are no crew roles listed. The role that's in the credits is an on-screen role. That makes it cast.[...]