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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What's the runtime of a season box? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Maybe it's just me, but regardless of interpretation of rules, I am not interested in including bonus material in the running time for a TV series. It makes no sense to say that Season 3 runs 1,004 minutes, for example, if 30-40 minutes of that is taken up with bonus features. To be consistent, the running time for the parent profile should be the sum of the running times of the children, so I would NOT include the times from the disc with bonus materials.
This thread is about running time not whether or not to include a child profile for a bonus-only disc, although that is an important topic in its own right. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Apparently you do not understand what the word "each" means in the following statement"
Quoting the Rules:
Quote:
Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,...
There is nothing creative about my interpretation. Each disc is each disc. The bonus disc is a disc in the set, therefore it qualifies as one of each of the discs.
The rest of the paragraph says that once you have created a profile for each disc, that you are to apply the standard rules to populating those profiles...each one of them.
Apparently you have a comprehension problem...either that or you only skimmed the thread...because I already addressed this.
Yes it can be interpreted that way as long as you read it as a single sentence, existing in a vacuum, and not as a sub-section of a set of rules. While I know you don't agree, I call that creative interpretation.
There is only one rule covering bonus discs. That rule is in the Box Set section and it tells us, quite clearly, the only time we can profile bonus discs. If you want to create 'bonus disc profiles' in any other area, you have to ignore that rule. Again, there is no getting around that fact. The Box Set Rules apply to Boxsets, not to TV sets. That's why they are in the Box Set rules section. The TV set rules apply to TV sets. That's why they're in the TV set Rules. Trying to argue that the Box set rules apply to TV sets is.......well...... creative! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Pretzelization.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Sorry, Skip. This is not taking the "Rules (out of) as context".
TV Sets have a separate set of Rules that apply to them.
Those separate Rules state with no ambiguity that each disc may be profiled.
(...)
I don't know where you got this idea from, but 'Box Sets' and 'TV Series' do not have their own seperate set of rules. They are "special cases where the rules need clarifications." Those sections containe rule clarifications, not seperate rules. Per the 'Introduction', "The standard rules do apply for these special cases" and those "sections clarify specific ways the rules apply to box sets and television series on DVD." To be 'specific', bonus discs can only be profiled under one circumstance...again, taking the rules as a whole. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
The Box Set Rules apply to Boxsets, not to TV sets. That's why they are in the Box Set rules section.
The TV set rules apply to TV sets. That's why they're in the TV set Rules.
Trying to argue that the Box set rules apply to TV sets is.......well...... creative! I really should read to the bottom of the thread before I respond.  This is only true if you believe that each section is 'An Island Unto Itself'. Nothing in the rules leads me to believe that is true. They are to be taken as a whole. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but regardless of interpretation of rules, I am not interested in including bonus material in the running time for a TV series. It makes no sense to say that Season 3 runs 1,004 minutes, for example, if 30-40 minutes of that is taken up with bonus features. To be consistent, the running time for the parent profile should be the sum of the running times of the children, so I would NOT include the times from the disc with bonus materials.
This thread is about running time not whether or not to include a child profile for a bonus-only disc, although that is an important topic in its own right. It's not just you. The running time should be the total of the actual episode run times and nothing else. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Sorry, Skip. This is not taking the "Rules (out of) as context".
TV Sets have a separate set of Rules that apply to them.
Those separate Rules state with no ambiguity that each disc may be profiled.
(...)
I don't know where you got this idea from, but 'Box Sets' and 'TV Series' do not have their own seperate set of rules. They are "special cases where the rules need clarifications."
Those sections containe rule clarifications, not seperate rules. Per the 'Introduction', "The standard rules do apply for these special cases" and those "sections clarify specific ways the rules apply to box sets and television series on DVD."
To be 'specific', bonus discs can only be profiled under one circumstance...again, taking the rules as a whole. Nice way of misrepresenting what I was saying. You know exactly what I meant. Box Sets and TV Sets have their own section in the Rules that apply to them and set them apart from the standard rules. Those sections define the exceptions/clarifications to the standard rules for those two special types of profiles (Box sets and TV sets). As you state, the "Standard rules" apply to both Box Sets and TV sets. Nowhere does it say that the Box Set rules apply to the TV set rules. That would be nuts. But you want to take one little section of the box set rules and apply them to TV sets. The "Standard Rules" are silent on profiling bonus discs. Since the TV Set Rules say to profile each disc, and the "Standard Rules are silent on bonus discs, then bonus discs for TV sets are in fact permitted under the current rules. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Nice way of misrepresenting what I was saying. You know exactly what I meant. Box Sets and TV Sets have their own section in the Rules that apply to them and set them apart from the standard rules. I did not misrepresent what you said. There is a difference between 'seperate rules' and 'rule clarifications'. Don't blame me if what you wrote isn't what you meant. Quote:
Those sections define the exceptions/clarifications to the standard rules for those two special types of profiles (Box sets and TV sets). Clarifications, yes. Exceptions, no. Quote:
As you state, the "Standard rules" apply to both Box Sets and TV sets.
Nowhere does it say that the Box Set rules apply to the TV set rules. That would be nuts. I didn't say they did. What I said was, they tell us the only time we can profile a bonus disc...which is true. Quote:
But you want to take one little section of the box set rules and apply them to TV sets. Actually, I want to apply it to Box Set profiles. As I said, it clearly states the ONLY time we can profile a bonus disc is when it covers all the films in a Box Set. Logic tells me that, if it can only be done under that circumstance, it can not be done under any other. Quote:
The "Standard Rules" are silent on profiling bonus discs. Does that mean we can create profiles for bonus discs in a standard release? Whether you know it or not, that is the implication here. Quote:
Since the TV Set Rules say to profile each disc, and the "Standard Rules are silent on bonus discs, then bonus discs for TV sets are in fact permitted under the current rules. By that logic, I can profile every single bonus disc I own. Is that really the can of worms you want to open here? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Nice way of misrepresenting what I was saying. You know exactly what I meant. Box Sets and TV Sets have their own section in the Rules that apply to them and set them apart from the standard rules.
I did not misrepresent what you said. There is a difference between 'seperate rules' and 'rule clarifications'. Don't blame me if what you wrote isn't what you meant. You did exactly what you were trying to do. Distort what I was trying to say. Quote:
Quote:
Those sections define the exceptions/clarifications to the standard rules for those two special types of profiles (Box sets and TV sets).
Clarifications, yes. Exceptions, no. "Do not include any Disc IDs on the main profile - these are listed on each of the individual profiles." That sounds like an exception to me! Quote:
Quote:
As you state, the "Standard rules" apply to both Box Sets and TV sets.
Nowhere does it say that the Box Set rules apply to the TV set rules. That would be nuts.
I didn't say they did. What I said was, they tell us the only time we can profile a bonus disc...which is true. You say you're not trying to apply the Box Set Rules to TV sets, and then turn around and say that we can't create a bonus disc because it says so in the Box Set rules section. Which is it? The Box Set Rules simply say that if the bonus discs covers all films in the Box Set, that you can create a profile for it. If it does not cover all films, you cannot. You are expanding those clarifications to include TV Sets. It says nothing about TV sets...it only addresses boxsets of films. Quote:
Quote:
But you want to take one little section of the box set rules and apply them to TV sets.
Actually, I want to apply it to Box Set profiles. As I said, it clearly states the ONLY time we can profile a bonus disc is when it covers all the films in a Box Set. Logic tells me that, if it can only be done under that circumstance, it can not be done under any other. Since this section is only about Box Sets, there is no logic that allows you to expand its coverage to other areas of the Rules; either the standard rules or the TV set rules. It may be logical to you, but it is your logic only. Quote:
Quote:
The "Standard Rules" are silent on profiling bonus discs.
Does that mean we can create profiles for bonus discs in a standard release? Whether you know it or not, that is the implication here. Technically, yes. However, that is not the same as a clear statement in the TV Set rules which states "Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired". Quote:
Quote:
Since the TV Set Rules say to profile each disc, and the "Standard Rules are silent on bonus discs, then bonus discs for TV sets are in fact permitted under the current rules.
By that logic, I can profile every single bonus disc I own. Is that really the can of worms you want to open here? No, now you are trying to apply the TV Set Rules to everything. They only apply to TV Sets! The Box Set rules expressly forbid bonus disc profiles for bonus discs that do not cover all films. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hal:
Unicus didn't distort anything you said. You distorted it yourself by trying to pretzelize a sentence which part of a larger whole. It does not stand on its own.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | @ Hal I am not going to go around and around with you for another 10 pages as it seems rather pointless. I will say this, however... By your logic, because the 'standard rules are silent and the Box Set rules only apply to box sets', I can create profiles for every bonus disc in my collection as long as it is NOT part of a Box Set. I find this quite amusing because you are the one who accused me of parsing the rules in a fashion that renders them useless. I guess it is a different story when they are being parsed in your favor. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
@ Hal
I am not going to go around and around with you for another 10 pages as it seems rather pointless. I will say this, however...
By your logic, because the 'standard rules are silent and the Box Set rules only apply to box sets', I can create profiles for every bonus disc in my collection as long as it is NOT part of a Box Set.
I find this quite amusing because you are the one who accused me of parsing the rules in a fashion that renders them useless. I guess it is a different story when they are being parsed in your favor. I do not consider it "parsing" to interpret the phrase "Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,..." to mean exactly what it says. You are the one who is trying to take clarifications spelled out in the Box Set rules section of the Rules and apply them to TV Sets. (and all profiles for that matter). The TV set rules specifically say that you can create a profile for each disc. That is an affirmative statement. The fact that the Standard Rules do not address bonus discs is not an affirmative statement about creating them or not for standard releases. I do not and would not advocate creating profiles for bonus discs for standard single film releases. I simply said that technically, it is not against the "standard rules"...which it is not. Please explain to me how "parsing" (to use your phrase) the Rule the way it is actually written "renders them (the Rules) useless". You're starting to sound like Skip with his "your destroying the database argument". Who exactly is harmed by adding bonus disc profiles for TV sets into the main database? And BTW, there are tons of them already in there, so it must be OK....again one of your previous arguments on another topic. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
And BTW, there are tons of them already in there, so it must be OK....again one of your previous arguments on another topic. There are also tons of profiles rife with IMDB-formatted cast and crew credits. Does this mean that it's OK for me to contribute one? Just because there's nothing in the rules to either allow or prohibit a particular contribution doesn't mean that every contribution in the database is correct. I wouldn't put much faith in the fact that there are tons of profiles in the database to support any argument. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It is when you do it while ignoring the remainder of the rules, which determine the context. There was once a TV show that described this quite nicely "Spin City"
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
And BTW, there are tons of them already in there, so it must be OK....again one of your previous arguments on another topic.
There are also tons of profiles rife with IMDB-formatted cast and crew credits. Does this mean that it's OK for me to contribute one? Just because there's nothing in the rules to either allow or prohibit a particular contribution doesn't mean that every contribution in the database is correct. I wouldn't put much faith in the fact that there are tons of profiles in the database to support any argument. That was my point! Thanks for agreeing! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
It is when you do it while ignoring the remainder of the rules, which determine the context. There was once a TV show that described this quite nicely "Spin City"
Skip The "remainder of the Rules" say nothing on the subject with the exception of the Box Set Rules, which only define what applies to Box Sets.... not to TV Sets. But please keep spinning, Skip. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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