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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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"Illustrated by" valid for Original Material? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Hmmm maybe we should include storyboard artists as OMB as well. After all their work is ORIGINAL to that film. So that would certainly qualify as OMB.
Skip
The story board is usually not published before the film. Therefore "Adapted from another medium" would not fit IMO.  Storyboards are seldom "published" per se but they are still Original works to whatever film we are talking about and they are used in order to establish camera angles and the overall look and feel of the film. If Illustrated by is OMB, which i don't buy for a single second, then so are storyboards using basically the same argument. Let's just keep shoehorning things in and eventually wewill have database that is totally meaningless. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 413 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Hmmm maybe we should include storyboard artists as OMB as well. After all their work is ORIGINAL to that film. So that would certainly qualify as OMB.
Skip When have you seen an on-screen credit "based on storyboard illustrations by"? It is the on-screen credits only we base our crediting in DVDP as you so often remind us. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jykke: Quote:
When have you seen an on-screen credit "based on storyboard illustrations by"? Maybe that does not exist, but there are credits for Production Illustrators and Storyboard Artists. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 413 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Quoting Jykke:
Quote:
When have you seen an on-screen credit "based on storyboard illustrations by"?
Maybe that does not exist, but there are credits for Production Illustrators and Storyboard Artists. ... and we do not credit them because the on-screen credits says nowhere that the film is BASED on their work (we are still discussing OMB credit). | | | | Last edited: by Jykke |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Jyjje: You have apparently missed my sarcasm. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Actually we DO, check the program and I don't see how you can shoehorn Illustrated into Book, poem, song, etc. etc. => etcetera => a number of unspecified additional persons or things No 'shoehorning' needed...unless I don't know the meaning of the word 'unspecified'.  Quote:
The category is CALLED WRITING, it is NOT called drawing , art, pretty pictures or anything else, WRITING. Words have meaning and Writing does NOT equal Drawing. So, if a film was based on a book of illustrations, the artist would not get a credit? Even if he was credited in the film? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tas314: Quote:
So they re-interpreted it. When do they not re-interpret original material. I expect they re-interpreted the written part too. Look at I Robot, that's about 98% re-interpreted from the original book. Did you read the interview? It is clear, from that interview, that the illustrator drew his pictures based on the written story. The writer even says he wrote certain parts because he wanted to see how they would be illustrated. It is also clear, from that interview, that the film is based on the written story. Quote:
If they used the original art as a base for the look of the film (why would they credit him if they didn't) then it's original material no mater how they changed it to make it work in live action. I agree with you if they did, but they didn't. The article makes that perfectly clear. It was the story that was re-interpreted, not the illustrations. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | How would your supposed credit read, Unicus? I have never seen such a film, based soley on a pictorial work. Illustrated by simply does NOT work within the realm of writing. The closest example of what you are describing that comes to mind would Dr. Seuss's stories BUT he WROTE them for which he gets credit in the films. There is no rationale which can be applied to WRITING that could accomodate DRAWINGS, it coulkd be shoehorned in but that would be inaccurate data, which would lead to more shoehorning, which would ultimately make the database useless because the data would be meaningless.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
How would your supposed credit read, Unicus? Um, Based on the book illustrated by John Doe maybe? Quote:
I have never seen such a film, based soley on a pictorial work. Illustrated by simply does NOT work within the realm of writing. The closest example of what you are describing that comes to mind would Dr. Seuss's stories BUT he WROTE them for which he gets credit in the films. There is no rationale which can be applied to WRITING that could accomodate DRAWINGS, it coulkd be shoehorned in but that would be inaccurate data, which would lead to more shoehorning, which would ultimately make the database useless because the data would be meaningless. Just because you haven't seen such a film doesn't mean one doesn't exist. Nor does it mean one will never exist. The rules say, "Adapted from another medium." Drawings are 'another medium'. Photography is 'another medium'. Sculpture is 'another medium'. In addition, the program uses the word 'etcetera'. That word means a number of unspecified additional persons or things. You are claiming that the rules ask for a specifice type of credit. That simply isn't true. The way the rule is written, says otherwise. The field description, in the program, says otherwise. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | The Rules do ask for a specific type of credit as i described, unicus. The category is WRITING, and the thiungs in the list are all linked in common by the FACT that they ARE WRITTEN.
Drawings and Illustrations are NOT WRITTEN, they are drawn.
Unspecified yes, clearly implied also yes. As I also said then we should also allow storyboard artists to be shoehorned in on the SAME basis, their work is also from another medium (the paper on which they are drawn) and they are also ORIGINAL to the film they are tied to.
This indeed a classic case of someone wanting his data whether suitable under the Rules or not, while the same predictable set of users rush to his aide with a variety of bogus aruments and spin in order to buttress his bogus claim. Apologies to Hilbert, it just doesn't wash.
And your dog don't hunt, Unicus. The rules can be interpreted and BENT to allow almost any kind of data that a user wnats to insert, that does not mean that it is beneficial to the dataase, useful data under our current system or appropriate under the current system.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | In my opinion original material adapted from a medium such as a book, poem, song, etc. does not refer to illustrators, but only to writers since the section is called writing and the given examples are all written material. It's as simple as that. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hear, hear, martin.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
The Rules do ask for a specific type of credit as i described, unicus. The category is WRITING, and the thiungs in the list are all linked in common by the FACT that they ARE WRITTEN.
Drawings and Illustrations are NOT WRITTEN, they are drawn. That is your opinion, and that is fine. I simply do not agree. Quote:
Unspecified yes, clearly implied also yes. As I also said then we should also allow storyboard artists to be shoehorned in on the SAME basis, their work is also from another medium (the paper on which they are drawn) and they are also ORIGINAL to the film they are tied to. If the credits read, "Based on the storyboard by John Smith," they would indeed get an OMB credit. If they don't, then they wouldn't. Quote:
This indeed a classic case of someone wanting his data whether suitable under the Rules or not, while the same predictable set of users rush to his aide with a variety of bogus aruments and spin in order to buttress his bogus claim. Apologies to Hilbert, it just doesn't wash. I hope you didn't include me in that, "same predictable set of users," as I do not believe this particular example deserves an OMB credit. Quote:
And your dog don't hunt, Unicus. The rules can be interpreted and BENT to allow almost any kind of data that a user wnats to insert, that does not mean that it is beneficial to the dataase, useful data under our current system or appropriate under the current system. Sorry, but what is and isn't beneficial to the database is a very subjective standard. What is beneficial to you may be a complete waste of time for someone else. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can't put my finger on it, but I am certain I have seen "Based on a concept by" as an OMB credit. Was that concept written? You got me. I am seeing both sides of this argument, now. Personally, Iwould not include it. I like to go strcitly by what the Rules say, and this seems to be stretching them more than a little bit. I guess I'd have to vote neutral. Please let us have open credits, Ken.  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: April 14, 2007 | | Posts: 433 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Unspecified yes, clearly implied also yes. As I also said then we should also allow storyboard artists to be shoehorned in on the SAME basis, their work is also from another medium (the paper on which they are drawn) and they are also ORIGINAL to the film they are tied to.
The main difference with storyboard artists is that the screenplay is not based on their work, quite the opposite their work is based on the already written screenplay. The OMB is only used when the screenplay is based off another work, and that is never the case with storyboards. | | | | Chris |
| | Registered: April 14, 2007 | | Posts: 433 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
In my opinion original material adapted from a medium such as a book, poem, song, etc. does not refer to illustrators, but only to writers since the section is called writing and the given examples are all written material. It's as simple as that. If we are only going to credit the writers no matter what, then as I pointed out on another page we should remove the artists names in the current OMB credits of many films adapted from comics. But here is the problem with removing the artist from comic based credits. The drawings show action that is not written, so IMO comic adaptations should get credited with the artist as well, because if you only transcribed the written text of a comic, you would not have any of the action, It would read like a chat. | | | | Chris |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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