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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Dancers not in cast list |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No, Giga, the new sport is to throw negs when undeserved.  Now as to your specific comment. This was discussed some time ago. We all recognize the Hollywood can cause extreme headaches. I am sure my friend Unicus will correct me if i am wrong. But the basic concept that was laid out is as follows Actor Stunt Actor Actor Include stunt Actor Actor Actor Stunt Do not include, hopefully this will minimize the amount pain caused by Hollyweird. Did I get it right, Unicus. I haven't had to grapple with it for several months. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Go back and re-read my replies to PDF. If what you say is true, and I am not doubting it I just haven't checked, they are 'credited actors'. That means all credited actors involved are NOT listed together in a single section at the end of the film. That being the case, these do not qualify as 'standard credits' and they can be entered.
The dancers are a different case. They are not, IMHO, credited 'actors'. They are credited 'dancers'. Thanks for your clarification. Without having to reread the above posts your made things clear now. It does muddy the water though. One man's dancer is the other man's performer is the next man's actor. | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | all examples here are in the credits at the end of the movie
Actor
Stunt
Actor
Actor
Include stunt
Actor
Actor
Actor
Stunt
Include stunt
Actor
Actor
Actor
< division
Stunt
do not clude stunt
Actor
Actor
Actor
< division
Stunt
< division
actor, dancer, ....
do not clude stunt, actor, dancer, .... | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Did I get it right, Unicus. I haven't had to grapple with it for several months.
Skip That is how I remember it...they had to be included within the cast list to get entered into the profile. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Yes, except for stunt people and body doubles.
Why? They are visible on screen.  Yes, but that does not mean they cannot be an exception to my rule. The important thing is that everyone who is visible or audible need to perform a certain role in a movie, which stunt people and body doubles clearly don't. They are human/body part replacements and should be qualified as crew. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | The filmmakers in some cases saw fit to include them, Martin. You know more than they do about their film? I doubt it seriously. Where is it written that Stunt People don't speak, and for that matter for all YOU know their role may have been Stunt Person or Body Double and they may be "real" acting roles. You assume too much.
Sometime you will se a role of Director, Assistant Director, Producer or almost any other legitimate Crew job, but they are legitimate acting roles. That is the part they play.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | This to me is complicated and I am jumping back and forth on what I think. I'll go with the rules as always and I see the listed together argument but it's not unambiguous since often the cast are not listed together so anyone could make a case either way.
I think we are being unfair on excluding stunt performers and dancers from the cast. They act a role which contributes to the movie far more than a director doing an uncredited cameo. Stunt director and choreographer belong with the crew definitely. Dancer and stunt performers are surely logically cast BUT we don't have categories within the cast and they will seldom have roles so it will get confusing. The rules could be more clear on this. It would be easy to clarify stunt performers yes/no dancers yes/no in the rules. if we apply the forum consensus "rule" then from this thread it's dancers in.
As always, even though I'd like to see them credited we get into the position where sometimes they are sometimes they are not. Adding them as just another cast member without a role will often be an unsatisfactory solution. We could create a crew category for them but that's always scary as we get '000s of submissions to add stunt performers. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
The filmmakers in some cases saw fit to include them, Martin. You know more than they do about their film? I doubt it seriously. Where is it written that Stunt People don't speak, and for that matter for all YOU know their role may have been Stunt Person or Body Double and they may be "real" acting roles. You assume too much.
Sometime you will se a role of Director, Assistant Director, Producer or almost any other legitimate Crew job, but they are legitimate acting roles. That is the part they play.
Skip I agree some cast can act as a crew member in a movie, but if they are separated from the actual cast they do not qualify to be part of them in my book. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree IF they are separated, but the topic is about not about that. It is about Stunt/Body Doubles which are included within a cast list. Methinks you misunderstood, my friend. Well the dancers are separted and should not be, I got this one confused with the other thread.  So many threads, so much time.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I agree IF they are separated, but the topic is about not about that. It is about Stunt/Body Doubles which are included within a cast list. Methinks you misunderstood, my friend. Well the dancers are separted and should not be, I got this one confused with the other thread. So many threads, so much time.
Skip It is clear your are confused, because your reply does not make any sense. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hey, whaddaya want it's almost 4AM here. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
But the basic concept that was laid out is as follows
Actor
Stunt
Actor
Actor
Include stunt
Actor
Actor
Actor
Stunt
Do not include, hopefully this will minimize the amount pain caused by Hollyweird.
Did I get it right, Unicus. I haven't had to grapple with it for several months.
Skip While I'm not Unicus your only almost right. We credit stunt people when their credits are fully integrated into the rest of the cast list. If they are fully integrated at the end of the cast list (no space, no stunt coordinator, no nothing to separate them), they are still fully integrated and therefore listed. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
Actor
Actor
Actor
< division
Stunt
< division
actor, dancer, ....
do not clude stunt, actor, dancer, .... Wrong: in this case actors are included because we deal with no standard credits when there is not a single credit list which includes all the actors. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Wrong: in this case actors are included because we deal with no standard credits when there is not a single credit list which includes all the actors. I can't find that in the rules! If a film does not have standard credits, use the following rules: If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits. If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits. If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Wrong: in this case actors are included because we deal with no standard credits when there is not a single credit list which includes all the actors.
I can't find that in the rules!
If a film does not have standard credits, use the following rules:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits.
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. The rules define the end credits: Quote:
For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". You would agree that our example has no end credits according to the rules definition (not all actors are listed together). Then the rules define what to do when no end credits are available: Quote:
If a film does not have standard credits, use the following rules:
* If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
* If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits.
* If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.
The film does have no end credits (as we agreed above, hopefully), therefore we can apply: Quote:
* If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits. And yes, there are actors credited elsewhere (at the end of the film where normally we would find end credits which are not available in this case). So we can add them all. A little bit weird but yes this is covered by the rules. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
The rules define the end credits:
Quote:
For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits".
You would agree that our example has no end credits according to the rules definition (not all actors are listed together).
So the endcredits are no longer endcredits the moment you don't have all actors together in the end credits? In this example from this thread: Quote:
I was doing a profile i had done the cast list which ended at 1:48:32 i had started to check the crew list when at 1:50:36 this list of dancers appeared wich are clearly the credits at the end of the movie and probably even has opening credits. Looks pretty standard to me. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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