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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Alan Smithee |
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| Registered: March 28, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Since otherers don't get it either and I can't say iI am surprised. My objection to the Common name issue is broad based and is simply waiting for Ken to implement his system. Once he does that....look out. Alan Smithee is one of the very FEW that i would have no problem with even now.
Skip What does Alan Smithee have to do with the common name issue? Although somewhat related, at hear these two issues are entirely separate. For those people who have only ever used one name (other than the pseudonym of Alan Smithee) there is no reason why anyone should have to wait for the common name issue to be resolved prior to modifying Alan Smithee credited profiles. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | They are related in the way they are handled for our purposes. If we did not have the new system, I would tell you I don't care what you think it is, we follow the film credits...if it says Alan Smithee then Alan Smithee it is. . The new system allows us to provide for that.
That is also why this is one of the areas in the realm of Common name that I can see that we can fix, it's straightforward and all one has to do is provide documentation for it.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
This has nothing to do with an Alan Smithee as long as documentation is provided.
Skip You really need to pay attention to what people are talking about. This is 100% about an Alan Smithee. Rifter says we should not be linking the actual director to 'Alan Smithee' via the credited as field. I said we should, per the rules, Nadja agreed and you jumped on him. Why?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Went back and looked again, quite right, unicus. Sorry nadja, i misunderstood what you were saying...my bad.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Went back and looked again, quite right, unicus. Sorry nadja, i misunderstood what you were saying...my bad.
Skip No worries mate. I just wanted to make sure you knew you were arguing against the position you were supporting.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree, 'Alan Smithee' is almost a sure thing that the Director used (or insisted) that his real name should not be used in the film. Documentation sources are usually fairly easy to locate for such films. | | | | Corey |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting pdf256:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name.
I feel like I am living in Bizarro World. John Carpenter wrote the screenplay for 'Prince of Darkness' under the pseudonym Martin Quatermass. Per the rules, this should be listed in the profile as:
Common Name: John Carpenter
Credited As: Martin Quatermass
From my research, Carpenter has used several pseudonyms: Frank Armitage, James T. Chance, John T. Chance, Rip Haight and Martin Quatermass. All of those, with proper documentation, should be linked to him using the 'Common Name/Credited As' feature. This statement is based 100% on the rules. I don't understand how you can't see that.
Most of us can see that. 
John does not want to see that. 
pdf
It has nothing to do with not 'seeing' it, wise guy. I just don't buy into this rabid obsession you all have with linking every damn name in the list with something else. But even there, I can see some logic in matching up variations of the SAME name, if only to avoid ping pong updating.
But there is NO logic is sticking a pseudonym in there. Stuff like this should be relegated to movie trivia, and not chiseled in stone in the main database. Most people use pseudonyms for a reason, and this isn't one of them. Far as I'm concerned, if it isn't listed in the credits, it isn't legit. Once again John, what do you want this data for? You don't want cross-linking of actors or crew. So why do you want the data? If the credits listed in the film are just what you want, then why do you need a copy in DVDProfiler? Most of us would like to have full cross-linking in our database. In fact yours is one of the very few voices not in favor of full cross-linking. Ken Cole, you do recall that name don't you, must want it or he would not have put it in the program! pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting pdf256:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name.
I feel like I am living in Bizarro World. John Carpenter wrote the screenplay for 'Prince of Darkness' under the pseudonym Martin Quatermass. Per the rules, this should be listed in the profile as:
Common Name: John Carpenter
Credited As: Martin Quatermass
From my research, Carpenter has used several pseudonyms: Frank Armitage, James T. Chance, John T. Chance, Rip Haight and Martin Quatermass. All of those, with proper documentation, should be linked to him using the 'Common Name/Credited As' feature. This statement is based 100% on the rules. I don't understand how you can't see that.
Most of us can see that.
John does not want to see that.
pdf
It has nothing to do with not 'seeing' it, wise guy. I just don't buy into this rabid obsession you all have with linking every damn name in the list with something else. But even there, I can see some logic in matching up variations of the SAME name, if only to avoid ping pong updating.
But there is NO logic is sticking a pseudonym in there. Stuff like this should be relegated to movie trivia, and not chiseled in stone in the main database. Most people use pseudonyms for a reason, and this isn't one of them. Far as I'm concerned, if it isn't listed in the credits, it isn't legit.
Once again John, what do you want this data for?
You don't want cross-linking of actors or crew. So why do you want the data?
If the credits listed in the film are just what you want, then why do you need a copy in DVDProfiler?
Most of us would like to have full cross-linking in our database. In fact yours is one of the very few voices not in favor of full cross-linking. Ken Cole, you do recall that name don't you, must want it or he would not have put it in the program!
pdf Do you people have a clue about how language even works? There are two issues here, one of which is common name linking. We've already beat that to death, and you guys insist on using it even though Ken hasn't even COMPLETED IT YET! That's bad enough in and of itself. The second thing is pseudonyms. A pseudonym is a false name - its an ALIAS. Most people use such names for illegal purposes, or at least to conceal their identity for some reason. They are NOT common names, or variations of common names. They belong in the name field where we put the name as it shows in the on disc credits. Trying to hook up that name with a completely different name - supposedly the REAL name - is NOT the same thing as linking variations of the name that was in the credits. You scream and yell and carry on about following the damn rules, then turn around and turn the rules on their head by completely disregarding the meaning of pseudonym by trying to turn it into another variation of a common name. I wouldn't have said a word if you were linking variations of Alan Smithee or whatever it is. As far as Ken goes, I know what he said. I also know that he isn't done working on this feature yet, and that you guys just can't stand to leave it alone until he's done. That is going to cause a hell of a lot more problems than me saying I don't want it. And, you're right, I don't particularly see the need for it. But then, I don't have to be spoon-fed to know what's in my database either. If Ken sets things up so anybody who doesn't want to see this stuff or deal with it, and can still contribute - as he said he would - then I'll be a happy camper. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! | | | | Last edited: by Rifter |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm sorry John, but the rule is clear. It could not be any clearer than it is. And it;s only a one line rule. Quote:
Use the "As Credited" field where the actor's name differs from the credited name. How is it hard to see that if Alan Smithee is really John Doe, then John Doe is the name and Alan Smithee is the credited as name? That is EXACTLY what the rule says. The only argument that ANYONE can make as to not use this rule, is that it says ACTOR and not CREW MEMBER. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
|   | Erik | | It's a strange world. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 422 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Do you people have a clue about how language even works? There are two issues here, one of which is common name linking. We've already beat that to death, and you guys insist on using it even though Ken hasn't even COMPLETED IT YET! That's bad enough in and of itself.
The second thing is pseudonyms. A pseudonym is a false name - its an ALIAS. Most of us know the difference between "it's" and "its"  Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, cool down a bit, all the "you guys" generalizations are not altogether accurate... | | | Erik
"Has it ever occurred to you, man, that given the nature of all this new stuff, that, uh, instead of running around blaming me, that this whole thing might just be, not, you know, not just such a simple, but uh - you know?" -- The Dude, The Big Lebowski
 | | | | Last edited: by Erik |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Far as I'm concerned, if it isn't listed in the credits, it isn't legit. And if the glove don't fit, you must aquit  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca.  Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense... |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Oh no, not the Chewbacca defence! Skip & Rifter don't stand a chance now! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let the Wookie win. However, John is absolutely correct. Whom among you wants to set YOURSELF up as the arbiter of the Common Name...not this little black duck. This does not deal with Smithee, my position on that particular aspect of Common Name is clear and it should cause no prblems ( I hope  ) As for the rest you people are CRAZY, as John has noted WHERE AER THE STANDARDS AND CRITERIA. Dont't quote the Rule to me again, Erik, I know what it says, where is the criteria as to how we determine what the Common name is. I am not qualified to make that determination and neither are ANY of you. Until Ken completes whatever it is he has in mind and implements it, anything you do now is likely to be totally WASTED time, it is likely to have be redone or undone. Thgis Gold Rush mentality to make use of a new capability that is not finished, using nothing for standards and criteria so that we are ALL doing it the same is just plain idiocy. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Let the Wookie win.
However, John is absolutely correct. Whom among you wants to set YOURSELF up as the arbiter of the Common Name...not this little black duck. This does not deal with Smithee, my position on that particular aspect of Common Name is clear and it should cause no prblems ( I hope ) As for the rest you people are CRAZY, as John has noted WHERE AER THE STANDARDS AND CRITERIA. Dont't quote the Rule to me again, Erik, I know what it says, where is the criteria as to how we determine what the Common name is. I am not qualified to make that determination and neither are ANY of you. Until Ken completes whatever it is he has in mind and implements it, anything you do now is likely to be totally WASTED time, it is likely to have be redone or undone. Thgis Gold Rush mentality to make use of a new capability that is not finished, using nothing for standards and criteria so that we are ALL doing it the same is just plain idiocy.
Skip This topic is about Smithee, it is not about common name. No one mentioned common names, yet,. this topic was derailed to that subject. Why must every topic that does not mention common name this or common name that, end up being about common name this and common name that? Can't we have a discussion where EVERYONE READS EVERY WORD EVERYONT TYPES AND DOES NOT ASSUME THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE? Is that even possible? | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Alan Smithee is part of the Common Name system, granted hopefully the single easiest aspect to implement. I think we all know what Alan Smithee means, but it is still part of that system so it inevitably will involve the larger topic.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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