Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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That it is wanted does not mean that it is supported by the rules at this time and whether you call it standardization or stylistic choice is of no matter since the only thing the rules allows...

No offense, honestly, but you have now said this in exactly ten posts in this thread in the last two days. I get it. My point is simply that almost none of the users wants to do it like that - the poll results are rather staggering in that regard - and it also doesn't make any sense. Again, I see absolutely no merit in treating one Jr. suffix differently then the other, just because the first happens to be credited WITHOUT a comma six out of ten times, and the other happens to be credited WITH a comma six out of ten times.

Other than that, the "credit lookup" tool currently only leads us to using IMDb-data, as the database still largely contains IMDb-data. The suffixes-issue gives us some nice examples of that, since we know that IMDb's "stylistic choice" is to NOT use a comma preceding a suffix. Let's have a look at a well-known name with a suffix, for instance Robert Downey, Jr. The "credit lookup" tool renders 94 profiles with Robert Downey, Jr. credits - of which I am personally convinced that it's the most-credited form. However, the "credit lookup" tool returns a staggering 545 profiles for Robert Downey Jr. without the comma... Although a few are bound to be correct, my estimates are that about four to five hundred of those are actually incorrect, but were lifted straight from IMDb. If we have to go by the "credit lookup" tool TODAY, we can all basically remove any comma preceding the suffix, because thanks to the bulk of IMDb-data in our database, the comma-less variant will almost always show up as the "winner". I really don't see how this helps us ahead.

Sure, you can say once again that the answer is in the rules telling us to use the "credit lookup" tool, and that's the end of it. But having checked a number of profiles, I'm fairly sure that neither one of us truly believes that Robert Downey Jr. (no comma) is the most-credited form. Then why should we make pointless contributions using the WRONG name, when we both know full well that it will have to be corrected later on? I completely agree that the credit lookup tool will prove to be the ultimate name source at some point in the future, but I am certainly can not base my cast and crew data on it entirely - it's already helpful, but still strongly biased by IMDb-data. Although I understand where the rules and Ken want to go (and I certainly believe we'll get there someday) I simply cannot believe that Ken wants us to change correct data to wrong IMDb-data right now, just because most profiles in the database aren't "as credited" yet. That isn't helpful at all. Not to me, not to you, not to anyone.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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[...] That seems pretty clear to me.

And I don't necessarily disagree. I just sometimes find myself having to anticipate on what will be in the database in about a year's time. I call it common sense. Again: I'll gladly make a bet with you that when all Mr. Downey's credits in our database have been corrected AS CREDITED, that Robert Downey, Jr. will turn out to be the most-used form, and NOT Robert Downey Jr. And that's not just a wild guess - it's based on thorough research, and checking a large number of his actual credits. Come on: you know this is true as well as I do. Given that I'm 100% sure that this is the case, why would I now have to add a WRONG common name of "Robert Downey Jr." to all as credited Robert Downey, Jr. entries? Because the rules says so? I am sorry, but (a) you can't convince me to do that, (b) I don't think you can convince 95% of the community to do so, and (c) I simply cannot imagine that this is what Ken wants me to do.

Again: I spend quite a lot of time on improving profiles - and each of those updates help working towards more accurate results for the "credit lookup" tool. I just cannot start contributing incorrect data on purpose. I can't, I won't, and I also don't believe Ken wants me to. Let me get this straight: if I were to contribute a correction to an IMDb-lifted profile in which I corrected a "Robert Downey Jr." credit to "Robert Downey, Jr." (as credited), you would object to this because I didn't include the lookup toll-dictated comma-less name variant as "common name"? You'd vote "no" to an as credited "Robert Downey, Jr." credit because you feel the lookup tool dictates that it should be "Robert Downey Jr. credited as Robert Downey, Jr."? And you truly think this is in the best interest of our database? 

Couldn't have said it any better - and as you can see: I tried... 

Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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l... clarified that it is all meant to use the most credited form....

But there's the rub...the look-up tool does not tell us the "most credited" form in the actual film credits, only the most numerous occurrence in the Invelos database.  And as has been pointed out, the two are often not the same thing.  It may be what Ken has told us to do, but it is fatally flawed.  It makes no sense to follow the troupe off the bridge just because someone says to do it.  And no I'm not suggesting that we should do what we want when contributing.  I am saying that we need to continue to raise the problems with this approach with Ken, and do it right locally.

Unfortunately, in order to properly document "Robert Downey, Jr." as the most "as credited" version, one would have to go out and buy all of his movies; every version, in every locality and sit down and check the actual credits of each one to see what the most common "as credited" version really is.

That's just not going to happen.

Yes, we need to "fix the Invelos database".  That's the long term solution, but it does not help us today.  In the meantime we are simply propagating the IMDb version of these names throughout our database as the "common name" when instinctively, we know it's just wrong. 

But as long as that is what Ken tells us to do... that is all we can do at this time. I have no problem with bringing up problems to Ken... I am all for that... but that isn't what people are doing... They are (or are saying to) contributing their way now... no matter what the rules say... THAT is not the right way to do it.

Has this been proposed in the Rule forum yet?  Perhaps an update with some well-defined standardizations could be proposed to Ken.

I certainly support the concept.

where cast and crew rules say...

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Take Crew Credits from the film credits only; list names exactly as they are in the credits. Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.

If it isn't exactly as credited (or using Credited as to link)... I would definitely have to vote no.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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where cast and crew rules say...

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Take Crew Credits from the film credits only; list names exactly as they are in the credits. Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.

If it isn't exactly as credited (or using Credited as to link)... I would definitely have to vote no.

And as I've been saying all along: that's EXACTLY what I'm doing! Whenever I'm making a change to a cast or crew entry, you can be absolutely sure that the result will be as credited. We apparently just sometimes disagree over whether that as credited name belongs in the "name" field, or in the "credited as" field. But it will be as credited in any case - which is why I've maintained that such updates should be considered an improvement from any viewpoint. In both cases, the as credited result will show up in the "lookup tool" results...

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Remember that the credit lookup tool does not look at the credit entry's name, it looks only at the "Credited As" field, if one is entered.  Therefore, using the lookup tool can't propagate errors.

If the "credited as" field is populated with unfixed IMDb data (and there's tons of it), then it means that we will select a "common name" that may not be the real "most commonly credited" version of that person in their real film credits.