Quoting hal9g:

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How many songs are required before a play can be called a musical play?

I don;t know.  Do you?

Is this something that I need to know in order to do a profile in DVDP?  It shouldn't be, IMHO.

No I don't know that either. However I don't need to as it tells us in the credit that it is a musical play, therefore the people who are credited as writing the musical bits must be important. So why not give them an OMB credit?

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting Patsa:

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Based on the musical play EVITA, Lyrics by Tim Rice, Music by Andrew Lloyd Webber

To me this is as clear as an OMB credit gets, but I guess some of you just want to be impossible. 

Actually, the 'Sweeney Todd' example is as clear as an OMB credit gets. 

The Sweeney Todd credit implies to you that Sondheim was responsible for the whole thing and the Evita credit implies to you that Rice and ALW possibly were not solely responsible for the whole thing.

However, Hugh Wheeler won the Book (Musical) Tony Award for Sweeney Todd and Rice won it for Evita. No one, to my knowledge, is credited for the book or music or lyrics for Evita other than Rice and ALW.

The credits in both Sweeney Todd and Evita, using your standard of "by" versus "music by/lyrics by", imply to you the opposite of what is true in both cases.

Theater credits are different from film credits and I think we need to allow for that in how we capture OMB credits. They're simply different. But the play or musical play, however credited, is the original source material.

Quoting Unicus69:

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All the 'Evita' credits tell us is that the movie was based on the musical and that two people wrote music and lyrics for that musical.  It does not say that they wrote the entire musical.

And what requires us to know that someone wrote the entire musical before we grant them an OMB?

Quoting m.cellophane:

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The Sweeney Todd credit implies to you that Sondheim was responsible for the whole thing and the Evita credit implies to you that Rice and ALW possibly were not solely responsible for the whole thing.

Not quite.  The 'Sweeney Todd' credit tells me that Sondheim and Wheeler were responsible for the whole thing.

The Evita credit tells me that Rice and Webber were responsible for the lyrics and music.  Anything beyond that is an assumption on your part.  While it may be a true assumption, it isn't what the credit says.

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However, Hugh Wheeler won the Book (Musical) Tony Award for Sweeney Todd and Rice won it for Evita. No one, to my knowledge, is credited for the book or music or lyrics for Evita other than Rice and ALW.

And this matters why?  We don't enter credits based on who won the Tony.  We enter credits based on how they are listed in the film.

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The credits in both Sweeney Todd and Evita, using your standard of "by" versus "music by/lyrics by", imply to you the opposite of what is true in both cases.

Not that it matters, but that is not correct.  From watching the special features of 'Sweeny Todd', unless I misunderstood the interviews, both Sondheim and Wheeler wrote the musical.

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Theater credits are different from film credits and I think we need to allow for that in how we capture OMB credits. They're simply different. But the play or musical play, however credited, is the original source material.

But we don't go by 'theater credits'.  We go by film credits.  In addition, I never said that 'Evita' wasn't the original source material.  What I said was, the way the credit is written, Rice and Webber don't qualify for a Profiler credit of OMB.

Quoting m.cellophane:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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All the 'Evita' credits tell us is that the movie was based on the musical and that two people wrote music and lyrics for that musical.  It does not say that they wrote the entire musical.

And what requires us to know that someone wrote the entire musical before we grant them an OMB?

Nothing.  But the credit has to say that they did, in fact, write the musical that the film is based on.  This credit does not do that.

This has gone on long enough! Four pages...going on 5 and it's the same thing all over again

Why are you wasting time here with a couple of stonewalling users who have no intention of changing their minds? Submit the OMB credit for TW and ALW and be done with it for cry'n out loud. Let the screener's do their job . If they decide the credit is unwarranted then so be it.

Quoting Unicus69:

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The Evita credit tells me that Rice and Webber were responsible for the lyrics and music.  Anything beyond that is an assumption on your part.  While it may be a true assumption, it isn't what the credit says.

Actually, I don't see it as an assumption on my part. Attributing a musical to the writers of the music and lyrics is common.

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However, Hugh Wheeler won the Book (Musical) Tony Award for Sweeney Todd and Rice won it for Evita. No one, to my knowledge, is credited for the book or music or lyrics for Evita other than Rice and ALW.

And this matters why?  We don't enter credits based on who won the Tony.  We enter credits based on how they are listed in the film.

Just giving you the history of the credit. I'm not saying that's why we should list them in DVDP, but the just trying to explain how the credit for Hugh Wheeler has the same basis in fact as the credit for Tim Rice. You see them differently, but I see them as the same based on where they come from.

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The credits in both Sweeney Todd and Evita, using your standard of "by" versus "music by/lyrics by", imply to you the opposite of what is true in both cases.

Not that it matters, but that is not correct.  From watching the special features of 'Sweeny Todd', unless I misunderstood the interviews, both Sondheim and Wheeler wrote the musical.

True, but they're the same credit in my opinion. And even if they aren't the same credit, a song is enough for OMB. And the Evita credit satisfies that.

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Theater credits are different from film credits and I think we need to allow for that in how we capture OMB credits. They're simply different. But the play or musical play, however credited, is the original source material.

But we don't go by 'theater credits'.  We go by film credits.  In addition, I never said that 'Evita' wasn't the original source material.  What I said was, the way the credit is written, Rice and Webber don't qualify for a Profiler credit of OMB.

The credit block is blank for acceptable roles for OMB specifically for this purpose. You are saying it isn't a valid credit for OMB, but that's based on your personal criteria. Based on theater criteria and the way theatrical productions are credited in films, the Evita credit attributes Rice and ALW for the source material. There's nothing in DVDP or the credit table that disallows this credit, but you are saying it doesn't qualify. Based on the way theater productions are credited in films, this qualifies in my opinion.

Quoting 8ballMax:

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This has gone on long enough! Four pages...going on 5 and it's the same thing all over again

Why are you wasting time here with a couple of stonewalling users who have no intention of changing their minds? Submit the OMB credit for TW and ALW and be done with it for cry'n out loud. Let the screener's do their job . If they decide the credit is unwarranted then so be it.

First sensible thing I've read all night. I'm away to bed now...