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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Larry/O./Williams, Jr. |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
The problem is that common sense is not welcomed in this forum, and every time I spoke of it, I got slapped by "great" users (those who think those forums are their's)  you can't let it rest, can you ... | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
The problem is that common sense is not welcomed in this forum, and every time I spoke of it, I got slapped by "great" users (those who think those forums are their's)
you can't let it rest, can you ... Tell me about it. He acts like he's 10 yrs old  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: June 3, 2007 | | Posts: 333 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I did offer a VERY REAL argument, snark. you are not willing to see it and don't appear to me to worry about whether the program exists or not. The simple fact that you not only don't understand predatory business practices, but completely dismiss tells me far more than i want to know.
You nor anyone el;se present any FACTS to support a desire to standardize to Jr. I have presented facts why NOT to standardize to Jr. and have further stated that IF we must standardize (which entails a lot of relatively useless editing) that we do it to the , Jr. standard which is used COMMONLY both in Hollywood and in society.
AS is typical people don't pay attention to everything that I say, but attack what they wish to attack and try to paint it the way the want to paint, usually with very little comprehension.
Setting a standard ignores both the rules and the results generated by the Tool and pre-determines the answer regardless of any other facts. As far as I am concerned this is a strcitly LOCAL decision and any user is free to do whatever he wishes in that regard.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: January 28, 2008 | | Posts: 4 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Snark: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Snark:
The simple fact that surfeur agrees with you tells me I am absolutely CORRECT. 
Skip
If you could offer an actual argument to support your position I might agree that you were.
But as it stands you've given me nothing but smoke and mirrors.
I like ya Skip, and I respect you. But the fact remains that your arguments in this case have been completely off point. The fact that you need to resort to claiming "victory" based on who takes a given position is kind of depressing. You're better than that buddy. 
- There is no lawsuit in offering. Nor is there any reasonable possibility of one in the future.
- Punction has nothing to do with "accuracy". The name is the same no matter how you punctuate it.
- Settling on a standard would eliminate pointless noise in what is already a... less than ideal system. It makes sense to deal with a common name between Dee Wallace and Dee Wallace-Stone (For lack of a better approach) but none whatsoever to do so between "Robert Downey Jr." and "Robert Downey, Jr." when they are not only the same person, but the punctuation is not at their discretion. We might as well preceed the actors names with spaces for the occasional film that doesn't left justify the cast names. Seriously, what is there to respect about this idiot? Please read some of his past posts if you think this is the first time this bonehead started spouting off this kind of nonsense. This is just another one of these threads he tries to derail because he thinks it's an assault on his "As Credited" rule. (His legacy to the world, as he sees it). Anybody taking any advice at all from this troll clearly doesn't understand the written word. A couple of things you should know about Maurice, he emptied waste baskets at the DOD in the IT dept. So he thinks he knows about IT (databases in particule, because one of the guys, who was an architect was nice enough to say hello). Was a security guard at Walt Disney World. Hence his expertise in the entertainment field. He once got caught with his Depends sticking out, and he tried to pass it off as astronaut training  . If Ken was really worry about lawsuits, he should be worried more about Disney sueing him for letting such a troll hide behind Walts face. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Oh, noes! I just reviewed TCM, BFI, Yahoo! Movies, Starpulse.com and Rotten Tomatoes. They don't use commas with their "Jr." names. They're going to go out of business when they're sued by IMDb and all we'll have left is IMDb. Oh, noes.  And Allmovie.com uses a mix of commas and no commas. Oh, noes! That's just like we do! We're going to be sued by Allmovie.com! Oh, noes.... | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: June 3, 2007 | | Posts: 333 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I did offer a VERY REAL argument, snark. you are not willing to see it and don't appear to me to worry about whether the program exists or not. The simple fact that you not only don't understand predatory business practices, but completely dismiss tells me far more than i want to know.
You nor anyone el;se present any FACTS to support a desire to standardize to Jr. I have presented facts why NOT to standardize to Jr. and have further stated that IF we must standardize (which entails a lot of relatively useless editing) that we do it to the , Jr. standard which is used COMMONLY both in Hollywood and in society.
AS is typical people don't pay attention to everything that I say, but attack what they wish to attack and try to paint it the way the want to paint, usually with very little comprehension.
Setting a standard ignores both the rules and the results generated by the Tool and pre-determines the answer regardless of any other facts. As far as I am concerned this is a strcitly LOCAL decision and any user is free to do whatever he wishes in that regard.
Skip Sorry Skip, but predatory business practices exist where one comapny has something to gain at the expense of another. Your "other" database is not competing with DVDProfiler. As far as FACTS go, the FACT is it would make life easier for everyone and reduce pointless noise in this forum. I don't enjoy it myself and would rather the title entering process be as painless as possible rather than wasting time pretending there is a difference between "Robert Downey, Jr'." and "Robert Downey Jr." when clearly there is not. I pay close attention to everything you say Skp. I simply disagree with you. I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. I've defended my opinion and will continue to do so. If you can offer me any real reason to do so, I am open to changing it. I would hope you can say the same. The "rules" have evolved over time and I expect them to continue to do so. Especially in cases like this where they are blatently inadequate. The rules cover how to parse names into 3 fields and this is exactly the same situation. The "tool" should be an option of last resort. We don't need it to tell us the difference between: F: "Just" M:"Another" L:"Guy" and F:"Just" M: L:"Another Guy" The rules remove that rediculous problem by telling us how to parse names. They should also include how to handle suffixes. If you want to needlessly complicate things locally, knock yourself out. But I see no reason that the rest of us should have to suffer. (Good googly moogly Skip, I got a day job!) If you think that the ", Jr" approach is better, I'm happy to sign on. But in the few days I've been regularly returning to the forums I've seen at least 2 threads where a simple rule clarification would have eliiminated the noise. So if you have an arugment why there SHOULDN'T be a standard punctution for suffixes (And I'll go one further and say there should be a standard for quoting "middle" ('middle'? lol) nicknames.) I'd like to hear it. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You nor anyone el;se present any FACTS to support a desire to standardize to Jr. I have presented facts why NOT to standardize to Jr. and have further stated that IF we must standardize (which entails a lot of relatively useless editing) that we do it to the , Jr. standard which is used COMMONLY both in Hollywood and in society.
Setting a standard ignores both the rules and the results generated by the Tool and pre-determines the answer regardless of any other facts. As far as I am concerned this is a strcitly LOCAL decision and any user is free to do whatever he wishes in that regard.
Skip I just wanted to highlight this because I'm just missing something here. According to the rules, we are obligated to choose a common name for every single person in the cast/crew database where there might be a variant. Just because people aren't bothering to take the time to do it doesn't magically reduce the workload. This useless editing argument is just wrong. Pre-determining the answer regardless of the facts. What the heck does this even mean? We already know the guy's name is Robert Downey, Jr. What other facts are there? The only other fact is that sometimes a comma is used and sometimes not. No matter how you cut it, a certain number of profiles have to be aliased, regardless of what is chosen as the "answer". Ignoring the CLT results. Yup, on purpose too. We can't even get a majority of folks to agree on how to use the CLT, or hasn't anyone noticed the proliferation of CLT threads? Let's save arguments for whether to use Bob or Robert. You know, actual stuff that might matter. Commas? Please. It has been suggested that using the comma provides some form of legal cover. Fine with me. I could care less which way it goes. It's my personal belief that the comma'd version is far more prevalent in credits anyway. In my opinion, settling on commas for the common name would minimize any profile changes, but I don't actually have any empirical evidence to back that up. Do it locally. I already do. There's no confusion and everything is linking perfectly. As an added bonus, if I stumble across a profile that has a comma-less entry in cast/crew for the common name, I automatically know I missed one. It's a nice easy selfcheck. Frankly, this was the simplest cast/crew change I've found that a person can do locally that gets the biggest bang for the buck. Of course, the other option is to wait an undetermined number of years for the online to eventually figure it out. My conservative guess at our current rate is about a decade. |
| | Registered: June 3, 2007 | | Posts: 333 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting The_Light: Quote:
Seriously, what is there to respect about this idiot? Please read some of his past posts if you think this is the first time this bonehead started spouting off this kind of nonsense. This is just another one of these threads he tries to derail because he thinks it's an assault on his "As Credited" rule. (His legacy to the world, as he sees it). Anybody taking any advice at all from this troll clearly doesn't understand the written word.
A couple of things you should know about Maurice, he emptied waste baskets at the DOD in the IT dept. So he thinks he knows about IT (databases in particule, because one of the guys, who was an architect was nice enough to say hello). Was a security guard at Walt Disney World. Hence his expertise in the entertainment field. He once got caught with his Depends sticking out, and he tried to pass it off as astronaut training .
If Ken was really worry about lawsuits, he should be worried more about Disney sueing him for letting such a troll hide behind Walts face. Heck, I like Skip. He's consistent and passionate about his view of accuracy and has been for years. When we're not disagreeing we got on fine. He's even right a lot of the time.  But in this case, he's just plain wrong IMO. He hasn't offered anything approaching a serious reason why standardizing punctuation would be bad and I don't expect him to do so at this point. I love playing devil's advocate but if I were trying to do so in this case I'd give up and go home. I can usually see his side, but on this one... not so much. Standardizing punctuation is a win for the users. It's a win for forum goers who want to participate in the contribution process. It doesn't sacrifice accuracy and improves the usibility AND the user experience. And best of all it's low hanging fruit. It's a couple of sentences attached to the contribution rules and we'll save hours in data entry and posting time. Everybody wins. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Frustrated as I might be with skip, there is absolutely no need to make this personal. It's not personal, just a difference of opinion. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting The_Light: Quote:
Quoting Snark:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Snark:
The simple fact that surfeur agrees with you tells me I am absolutely CORRECT.
Skip
If you could offer an actual argument to support your position I might agree that you were.
But as it stands you've given me nothing but smoke and mirrors.
I like ya Skip, and I respect you. But the fact remains that your arguments in this case have been completely off point. The fact that you need to resort to claiming "victory" based on who takes a given position is kind of depressing. You're better than that buddy.
- There is no lawsuit in offering. Nor is there any reasonable possibility of one in the future.
- Punction has nothing to do with "accuracy". The name is the same no matter how you punctuate it.
- Settling on a standard would eliminate pointless noise in what is already a... less than ideal system. It makes sense to deal with a common name between Dee Wallace and Dee Wallace-Stone (For lack of a better approach) but none whatsoever to do so between "Robert Downey Jr." and "Robert Downey, Jr." when they are not only the same person, but the punctuation is not at their discretion. We might as well preceed the actors names with spaces for the occasional film that doesn't left justify the cast names.
Seriously, what is there to respect about this idiot? Please read some of his past posts if you think this is the first time this bonehead started spouting off this kind of nonsense. This is just another one of these threads he tries to derail because he thinks it's an assault on his "As Credited" rule. (His legacy to the world, as he sees it). Anybody taking any advice at all from this troll clearly doesn't understand the written word.
A couple of things you should know about Maurice, he emptied waste baskets at the DOD in the IT dept. So he thinks he knows about IT (databases in particule, because one of the guys, who was an architect was nice enough to say hello). Was a security guard at Walt Disney World. Hence his expertise in the entertainment field. He once got caught with his Depends sticking out, and he tried to pass it off as astronaut training .
If Ken was really worry about lawsuits, he should be worried more about Disney sueing him for letting such a troll hide behind Walts face. Your comment is not even worth addressin. You, Light, who have been soooo active for soooo longh, 9 months, FOUR count them FOUR posts and ZERO Contributions. To paraphrase a friend of mine whom some might recognize, "Get off the internet you big dope." But thanks for the laugh. @ James: So you have the ability to read the corporate mind and determine that they don't view profiler as a competitive threat. When did you start working for them, that's the only way you could know that. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I concur with both Snark and midnit., both of which are old friends. We are disagreeing., nothing more. For both snark and midnit, my problem with what everyone has been saying is that they have all been parrotting Tim, also a friend, and instead of discussing the merits OR lack thereof of standardizing, they happear to have signedon to a SPECIFIC type of standardization. And I repeat, I have seen no valid reason put forth to support that particualr standard, tthe potential legal issue aside there are reasons toi use a different standarad if we are to do so and that would be that Hollywood far more commonly usesthe , Jr. form as does society. There is ONLY one possible argument to favor COPYING someone else's standard and surely you aren't goig to argue keystrokes...are you?  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think anybody has any issue with which standard we would potentially use. If it were up to me, I'd vote to include commas. When I did my cast/crew, comma occured far more often. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
@ James:
So you have the ability to read the corporate mind and determine that they don't view profiler as a competitive threat. When did you start working for them, that's the only way you could know that.
Skip The only thing of which I'm sure is that I got a negative vote for that post. Oh, well. Someone doesn't have a sense of humor.  Regardless, I think it's impossible to know who owns the presence or lack of a comma in a name. As far as I know, no one does. But there I go wildly speculating again... | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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