Quoting T!M:

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It's interesting to see that at the moment, "J.K. Simmons" even has a small lead over "J. K. Simmons" in the CLT - although as usual, both name variants show many of the same titles...

I noticed this as well but it should be noted that some of the 'J.K.'s are caused by people entering 'J./K./ Simmons credited as J.K. Simmons'.

Why Paul. so I can be abused some more by you. An excellent example of WHY I made the choice. No thank you, I have absorbed quite enough abuse. NAs for your other insulting remark, you don't really think they don't conform to the rules...do you. Don't forget I run parallel Db's one which contains all of my local data and the other which is per Rules.

You can call it whatever you wish, Paul, I call it you bit the hand that feeds you one too many times and I'll not extend myself anymore than I choose.

BTW Paul ifind this comment to absolutely hysterical..."If these are new profiles"

Translate this for me..."there are presently about 150 or 200 titles which have been added to my database and STILL have not been by added anyone in R1"

Skip

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting T!M:

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It's interesting to see that at the moment, "J.K. Simmons" even has a small lead over "J. K. Simmons" in the CLT - although as usual, both name variants show many of the same titles...

I noticed this as well but it should be noted that some of the 'J.K.'s are caused by people entering 'J./K./ Simmons credited as J.K. Simmons'.

Indeed it is. I don't own all of them, obviously, but I can confirm that he's actually credited without a space quite often: 'The Cider House Rules', 'The First Wives Club', 'The Ladykillers', 'Spider-Man', 'Spider-Man 2', 'Spider-Man 3' and 'Thank You For Smoking' are a few that I can confirm. If we were indeed to somehow track the difference between both name variants, these titles alone amount to at least 175 "incorrect" J. K. entries. And there may well be more...

Again: I want to have a clear and simple standard to deal with this, and to deal with the similar suffixes issue as well. But as long as I'm expected to track the difference between a comma or no comma preceding a suffix, I somehow tend to track the difference between a space and no space between such initials as well. Either we decide to disregard such "cosmetic" variants entirely, or we remain adamant that at least the "credited as" field has an EXACT replica of what is seen on-screen. If we stick with the latter, then I can't help feeling that such an "EXACT replica" includes (the lack of) a space just as much as (the lack of) a comma.

Quoting Unicus69:

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I do not 'like' to see these as separate issues, they are separate.  One deals with data, the other deals with parsing.  One is covered by the rules, the other is not.

If a comma exists in the credits, we must enter it.  If a comma doesn't exist in the data, we cannot add one.  Like it or not, those are the rules and there is no getting around it.

There are no rules for the parsing of initials.  Because of that, we can decide to do it in a way that is simple and easy.  In my opinion, that way is the same default standard some of us are already using for every other name.  '1/2/3' unless it can be documented that it is different.

This is exactly right.

When we parse the initials into two separate fields, we are not adding a space between them, Ken's software is doing that.  We have not change the data one iota from what appeared on the screen; we enter "J." into the first name field, and "K." into the middle name field.  We have changed nothing during data entry.  How Ken decides to display the data that we have entered is up to him.

Adding or deleting commas and periods for suffixes is entirely different.  You would indeed be changing the on-screen data as you enteered it into its assigned field.

I don't see how you cannnot see the difference between these two situations.

The topic of this thread has to do with parsing; that's all.  The question comes down to whether the lack of a space between the first and second intitials is an indicator in every case that the two initials are in fact a single "first name" or are they simply the first and middle initial without a space?

For me the answer is very simple; yes, and yes.  Without documentation to prove that the two initials are really the person's first name, we must parse them into firtname field and second name field.  If you can substantiate that this person uses those two initials as a first name, enter it as such with proof.

Skip you keep arguing over and over about data accuracy.  Data accuracy is only important for the "credited as" field.  It is important to know exactly how soemone's name appeared in the actual credits.

For the "Name" field (if Ken insists on maintaing this seriously flawed linking system), I still believe that our lives would be infinitely easier, if we used a set of standards that were defined in the Rules.  This field is only for linking variations; it has nothing to do with data accuracy.

My two cents!

Quoting hal9g:

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I don't see how you cannnot see the difference between these two situations.

I can certainly see the difference, I just also see the similarity: in both scenarios we're presented with two differently formatted on-screen credits, and we're struggling whether to reflect that little difference when we're entering the credit into DVD Profiler. I understand what you're saying, really I do, but try to understand that if "J.K. Simmons" and "J. K. Simmons" were role names, you'd enter them both exactly as credited, right? Yet now that they're actor names you suddenly choose to disregard the difference. If you'd be entering the credit into one field, you'd specifically copy that space (or specifically leave it out), yet when you're entering it into another field, suddenly you don't make any distinction anymore. Again: if that's what we all agree to do, I'm happy to oblige. I'd just expect the solution for dealing with suffixes to be pretty similar.

Quoting hal9g:

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For the "Name" field (if Ken insists on maintaing this seriously flawed linking system), I still believe that our lives would be infinitely easier, if we used a set of standards that were defined in the Rules.  This field is only for linking variations; it has nothing to do with data accuracy.

Now you're talking! If, on this particular issue, we all agree that we will ignore the difference between "J.K. Simmons" and "J. K. Simmons" credits for DVD Profiler purposes, and enter them both as J./K./Simmons without using the "credited as" field, I'm happy to oblige, and I will be among the first to fix as many erroneous entries as I can. But I would really like a little bit more than just this 43 vs. 16 voting balance before I relent and remove this little tidbit from my profiles - ideally a quick confirmation from Ken. As I said before: the lack of a standard has caused me to store the difference between A.B. and A. B. credits using the "credited as" field, and though nothing would please me more as getting rid of it, I would like to be very sure that I'm not going to need that little bit of information back when v3.5 comes around in a little while.

And as soon as we've fixed this, then I'd like to set a similar standard for dealing with suffixes - something like: "always use a comma and a space preceding a Jr./Sr. suffix, and use the "credited as" field when the on-screen credit omits the comma."

Again, I'm perfectly happy to go any way, as long we're finally able to clean up all those pointless double entries for the same people.

Quoting T!M:

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I understand what you're saying, really I do, but try to understand that if "J.K. Simmons" and "J. K. Simmons" were role names, you'd enter them both exactly as credited, right? Yet now that they're actor names you suddenly choose to disregard the difference. If you'd be entering the credit into one field, you'd specifically copy that space (or specifically leave it out), yet when you're entering it into another field, suddenly you don't make any distinction anymore. Again: if that's what we all agree to do, I'm happy to oblige. I'd just expect the solution for dealing with suffixes to be pretty similar.

The difference, to me, is with actor names we parse them and with role names we don't.

When i see a space between words in the actor's name i know to parse.  When i see initials separated by periods i know to parse.  The periods defined the parsing points explicitly making the spaces (or lack thereof) irrelevant.  Barring evidence to the contrary periods should provide parsing points at least as definite as spaces.

I see you've been editing while i typed and i'm in concurrence with your desire to (have Ken) pick a standard and let us run with it.

I am also all for Ken to decide on a standard... if indeed that is what he wants to do. The only thing I am against is applying any type of standard until he does.

Quoting Pantheon:

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I haven't bothered to read this entire thread so I apologise if I voice the opinion of others and get boring.

Personally, I feel the use of Credited As to simply show a space between initials is a complete waste of time and adds nothing to the database.

I agree.  And also think that using Credited as to show a comma before Jr. (or on the other hand the lack of a comma) to be as complete a waste of time).  In this case I hope Ken would pick one -- either use the comma or exclude the comma (as IMDB does) and have us follow that standard.

But that requires a rules change.  I thought this topic was how to handle the situation under the current rules.  That's why I voted for the second option.