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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What's the runtime of a season box? |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Taken as a whole, because of the clarification in the Box Set section, it is clear that bonus disc profiles are not allowed for single movie releases. But the Box Set section is a clarification to the rules, a separate section. That is enforced in the TV series section where we're told to follow standard rules unless we have multiple seasons, in which case follow Box Set rules - the rules see them as separate sections too. You're also reading the bonus disc rule from the point of view that 1 season is 1 entity, whereas Nadja is looking at it from a episodic level = multiple entities. There is nothing in the rules to say if either is right. More worryingly, the fact that the bonus disc rule is in the Box Set sections suggests that people could argue that bonus discs in non-boxset profiles are allowed separate profiles. A loophole that really needs closing. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
so this would mean no running time for Bonus Materials in the total runtime of a season box. I've contributed quite a few season/complete boxes runtimes and I intend to continue. So far I've only gotten yes votes for it. I only added up the episode lengths and documented it discwide as well as summed up. For example Star Trek TOS S3 5-014437-841834 Quote:
runtime corrected according to DVD Decrypter
03:14:31 195
03:14:34 195
03:14:05 194
03:14:32 195
03:14:33 195
03:14:15 194
02:14:33 135
--------------------
21:41:03 1301
-------------------- | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 | | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think I have seen any, Karsten but it sounds like you are right on track.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I don't think I have seen any, Karsten but it sounds like you are right on track. I have very few US series boxes. The only US box I contributed so far is the red "Friends" box (012569-832688). | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
| | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
so this would mean no running time for Bonus Materials in the total runtime of a season box.
...
I only added up the episode lengths and documented it discwide as well as summed up.
...
we seem to agree  | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MolBioRennie: Quote:
For Disc-level Profiles under TV Series on DVD:
"Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules."
The standard rules provide the information for title, film/episode details, features, audio & video specifications, etc. However, the standard contribution rules do not provide for individual disc profiles. All discs, features and bonus, are grouped in the UPC/packaging level profile, so no help on disc-level profiles here, nothing on what is or is not allowed.
Yes, under the ""Box Sets" Containing More Than One Film" rules we find:
"If a Box Set contains discs of Bonus Material for individual films, do not create separate profiles for these discs."
However, under "TV Series on DVD", at the very bottom of the page we find:
"Note: In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile."
So a single season TV series is not considered a Box Set under the rules, therefore Box Set rules, including the "Box Set clarification" for bonus discs do not apply.
Since the Standard Rules do not provide child profile info, and the Box set rules do not apply, we are left with what is clearly spelled out in the TV Series section:
"Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired, but this is not required."
No distinction between episode or bonus only. And there is the awareness in the rules that there are bonus-only discs:
"If there is a separate disc of extras with no episodes, use the standard "Bonus Materials" description."
So, by my reading, unless you want to invoke the Box Set clarification, which is clearly not allowed by the rules for a TV series single season, there is no prohibition for bonus-only disc-level profiles.
In short: the standard rules give all the info for UPC/packaging level profiling, the Box Set rules require disc-level profiling by feature with incorporated bonus discs (but these rules do not apply to single season TV series), and the TV series rules provide for UPC/packaging level profiling with optional disc-level profiling "for each disc". Clear enough for me. Using this logic, we can create profiles for the bonus disc in single feature releases. I mean, they aren't box sets, so the carification in the box set rules does not apply. Sorry, but no. I did notice, however, that you left out this sentence in your quotes above: "Add the information to the individual film’s profile as normal for a single film 2-Disc set." That tells us that we DO NOT, using standard rules, create profiles for bonus discs. This is a perfect example of what I was saying earlier. If you take each rule, on it's own and out of context, you can make them say almost anything you want. Again, sorry, but no. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Taken as a whole, because of the clarification in the Box Set section, it is clear that bonus disc profiles are not allowed for single movie releases.
But the Box Set section is a clarification to the rules, a separate section. That is enforced in the TV series section where we're told to follow standard rules unless we have multiple seasons, in which case follow Box Set rules - the rules see them as separate sections too. Yes, but they are seperate sections of the same set of rules. They should be taken as a whole, not as a single rule all by itself. JMHO. Quote:
You're also reading the bonus disc rule from the point of view that 1 season is 1 entity, whereas Nadja is looking at it from a episodic level = multiple entities. There is nothing in the rules to say if either is right. Yes, but that is supported by the TV Series rules where it says to treat each series, of a multi-series set, like a single film. If the series as a whole can be treated as a single film, it doesn't make any sense to treat each disc as a film as well. And to be clear, the rules do not say that they are. That is something that Nadja has decided on his own. Quote:
More worryingly, the fact that the bonus disc rule is in the Box Set sections suggests that people could argue that bonus discs in non-boxset profiles are allowed separate profiles. A loophole that really needs closing. Oh yes, that is the road we are on. When people decide that something said in one section of the rules, even though it is referencing other types of profiles, does not apply to anything outside of that section, they are opening up Titanic sized holes.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Those who are interpreting the rules to prohibit profiles for separate bonus discs included in TV sets seem to be ignoring the first phrase under the "Disc-Level Profiles" section of the TV set rules: Quoting Rules: Quote:
Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,... Bolding is mine. It does not say "Individual profiles for each disc containing episodes may be submitted if desired" | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Agreed on all counts., Unicus
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Those who are interpreting the rules to prohibit profiles for separate bonus discs included in TV sets seem to be ignoring the first phrase under the "Disc-Level Profiles" section of the TV set rules:
Quoting Rules:
Quote:
Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,...
Bolding is mine. It does not say "Individual profiles for each disc containing episodes may be submitted if desired" And you seem to be ignoring the rest of that paragraph: "Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules..." Standard Contribution Rules do not allow for the profiling of 'bonus discs'. Again, something you can't get around...unless you are creative with your interpretation of the rules. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Those who are interpreting the rules to prohibit profiles for separate bonus discs included in TV sets seem to be ignoring the first phrase under the "Disc-Level Profiles" section of the TV set rules:
Quoting Rules:
Quote:
Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,...
Bolding is mine. It does not say "Individual profiles for each disc containing episodes may be submitted if desired"
And you seem to be ignoring the rest of that paragraph: "Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules..."
Standard Contribution Rules do not allow for the profiling of 'bonus discs'. Again, something you can't get around...unless you are creative with your interpretation of the rules. Standard Rules do not allow for profiling of bonus discs for standard single film releases. We have separate rules for Box Sets and for TV sets for a reason. The Rules for TV sets clearly allow for us to profile each disc. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Standard Rules do not allow for profiling of bonus discs for standard single film releases.
We have separate rules for Box Sets and for TV sets for a reason.
The Rules for TV sets clearly allow for us to profile each disc. Like I said, creative interpretation. I am still waiting for someone to show me the rule that says profiling bonus discs is allowed. Not an interpretation, but an actual rule that says 'profile the bonus disc for TV Sets'. That rule exists for Box Sets, I wonder why one doesn't exist in the TV series section? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Apparently you do not understand what the word "each" means in the following statement" Quoting the Rules: Quote:
Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,... There is nothing creative about my interpretation. Each disc is each disc. The bonus disc is a disc in the set, therefore it qualifies as one of each of the discs. The rest of the paragraph says that once you have created a profile for each disc, that you are to apply the standard rules to populating those profiles... each one of them. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sorry, hal, Taking the entire Rules as CONTEXT, that is just wrong. That is the typical let's take a single subset of a few words and pretzelize them so that we can impose what WE want on the database.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Apparently you do not understand what the word "each" means in the following statement"
Quoting the Rules:
Quote:
Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired,...
There is nothing creative about my interpretation. Each disc is each disc. The bonus disc is a disc in the set, therefore it qualifies as one of each of the discs.
The rest of the paragraph says that once you have created a profile for each disc, that you are to apply the standard rules to populating those profiles...each one of them. Apparently you have a comprehension problem...either that or you only skimmed the thread...because I already addressed this. Yes it can be interpreted that way as long as you read it as a single sentence, existing in a vacuum, and not as a sub-section of a set of rules. While I know you don't agree, I call that creative interpretation. There is only one rule covering bonus discs. That rule is in the Box Set section and it tells us, quite clearly, the only time we can profile bonus discs. If you want to create 'bonus disc profiles' in any other area, you have to ignore that rule. Again, there is no getting around that fact. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Sorry, hal, Taking the entire Rules as CONTEXT, that is just wrong. That is the typical let's take a single subset of a few words and pretzelize them so that we can impose what WE want on the database.
Skip Sorry, Skip. This is not taking the "Rules (out of) as context". TV Sets have a separate set of Rules that apply to them. Those separate Rules state with no ambiguity that each disc may be profiled. Trying to bring in the Box Set rules to justify your interpretation is just wrong. It gets very tiresome that every time someone disagrees with your view of the world that you accuse them of either destroying the database or imposing what they want on the database. To take your argument from way back when on child profiles for TV sets, why do you care if someone creates a child profile for a bonus disc. If you don't want to use it, don't download it; but don't impose your will on those that do want to use it. | | | | Hal |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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