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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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"Illustrated by" valid for Original Material? |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: The first one is easy, the writer of the book the film is based on will always get an OMB credit. if credited on screen.
(Just clarifying...otherwise i concur with your opinion on the matter) Sorry, yes...if credited on screen. Can't believe I left that out. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
Ok, i apologize, yes you didn't argue that the interview couldn't be used for outside source, but my comment still raises a valid point that it can be used to argue both ways. To be clear, I have no problem with people using an outside source to validate a credit. In this case, however, I do not think it does. In fact, I think it does just the opposite. Quote: However, now it is you who assume, did you notice the -- in my post, the ones you conviently left out. I put those there to seperate those comments from the ones made after the quoted text. Now it is my turn to apologize. I did not read it the way you intended. Quote: *edit* however you are still free to respond to that point, dont get me wrong. But however, if its a reimagining, is it not still based on the work created by others? I guess, for me at least, it depends on what work was reimagined. Was it the story or the illustrations? In this case, it was the story. JMHO | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: May 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,033 |
| Posted: | | | | In all honesty, I find this an interesting discussion [edit]which is why i chimed in[/edit]. From first post it seemed (to me at least) cut and dry, no credit for illustrated. With the info that it is based on a graphic novel, a medium that I feel gets its story as much from the images as it does the text, I see no reason that a credit can't be giving for it under OMB, though I agree with those that say they would accept it contributed either way. I wouldn't go out of my way to add it to the online, but I wouldn't go out of my way to remove it (unlike a box set profile where i would make it a point to remove, and vote no against disc information for example).
My comments were (and are) mainly meant to hopefully make those against it step back and think to themselves, maybe it is a valid credit or at least I can see how someone would see it as such, even if I don't and wouldn't have it in my local DB.
-Agrare | | | Last edited: by Agrare |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting HilbertHimmelwaerts: Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote: None of that has ANY relevance, Hilbert. We don't care, the rules are specific, we deal with FILM CREDITS period. Anything you dig up has no bearing at all. Please review the Rules.
Skip
We? Some people say yes to "OMB" some no - who is we in the context? We just do not have a consensus how to interpret and read the rules... Instead of attempting to be cute and sarcastic, try reading the Rules, bub. IF you can find anything that says Illustrated by in the Rules or the Program then fine, if not then KEEP IT LOCALLY. PERIOD. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting HilbertHimmelwaerts: Quote:
Quote: Which might explain why, in this case, the studio chose to credit them separately.
This is the picture frame with the credit:
In my opion this is a kind of together. And the studio decide to credit the illustrator.
Quote:
I was wondering when Asterix would surface in this debate. I don't have any of the DVDs (despite having every one of the books...in French). I would be interested to hear from anyone who has the DVDs how (if) Goscinny & Uderzo are actually credited.
I just checked "Asterix Le Gaulois".
The only entry is "de Goscinny et Uderzo". I hope this is enough to credit both of them for the original material. Thasnk you for providing direct evidence, DEFINITELY it is a local issue and NOT contributable. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: Let me try one last time since you are making assumptions based on things I did not say. In this case, we are dealing with two credits. A writing credit and an illustration credit.
Ok, i apologize, yes you didn't argue that the interview couldn't be used for outside source, but my comment still raises a valid point that it can be used to argue both ways.
However, now it is you who assume, did you notice the -- in my post, the ones you conviently left out. I put those there to seperate those comments from the ones made after the quoted text.
*edit* however you are still free to respond to that point, dont get me wrong. But however, if its a reimagining, is it not still based on the work created by others?
-Agrare Please be so kind as to show me in the Rules where it even implies that we can use outside resources for this kind of data, I don't see it. We use the credits as they appear On Screen PERIOD, and exactly as they appear On Screen, we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.Illustrated by is not among rthem and use of ANY outside datasource is not specifically allowed. As i said the answer is here is very simple, KEEP IT LOCAL and maybe someday it will be contributable but right now it is NOT. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
(...)
we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.
(...)
Actually, for OMB, we don't...which is why this discussion came up. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 24, 2007 | Posts: 240 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
He says the film was visually different from the illustrations in the book. He says that they re-interpreted it. That tells me that the film was based on the written word, not the illustrations. Which might explain why, in this case, the studio chose to credit them separately. So they re-interpreted it. When do they not re-interpret original material. I expect they re-interpreted the written part too. Look at I Robot, that's about 98% re-interpreted from the original book. If they used the original art as a base for the look of the film (why would they credit him if they didn't) then it's original material no mater how they changed it to make it work in live action. | | | Tom. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
(...)
we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.
(...)
Actually, for OMB, we don't...which is why this discussion came up. Actually we DO, check the program and I don't see how you can shoehorn Illustrated into Book, poem, song, etc. The category is CALLED WRITING, it is NOT called drawing , art, pretty pictures or anything else, WRITING. Words have meaning and Writing does NOT equal Drawing. This strkes me as a classic case of trying to shoehorn data that doesn't really fit ANY possible definitions related to WRITING and Illustrated by. Hilbery is certainly able to keep the data locally and perhaps one day it will be Contributable, though i personally think that their are not enough Illustrated by credits to warrant it UNLESS we are able t do it through some form of Open Credits. The Program SAYS Book, POEM, Song, etc. What do those listings have in common...pictures?....no they are ALL WRITTEN. Drawings are NOT written, they are drawn. Illustrations can be painted, photographs, drawn but they are also NOT written. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,480 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: We use the credits as they appear On Screen PERIOD, and exactly as they appear On Screen, we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.Illustrated by is not among rthem and use of ANY outside datasource is not specifically allowed. As i said the answer is here is very simple, KEEP IT LOCAL and maybe someday it will be contributable but right now it is NOT. OMB is open-ended both in the rules and in the program. Quoting skipnet50: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
(...)
we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.
(...)
Actually, for OMB, we don't...which is why this discussion came up. Actually we DO, check the program and I don't see how you can shoehorn Illustrated into Book, poem, song, etc. Right. It's says "etc." It doesn't say "PERIOD". | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Hmmm maybe we should include storyboard artists as OMB as well. After all their work is ORIGINAL to that film. So that would certainly qualify as OMB.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote: ...Artwork is NOT writing in any way shape or form.
Ancient Egyptians and their Hieroglyphics or Cavemen and their cave paintings might disagree with you on that
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: Yes, they worked together, but one had the idea and wrote the story, the other illustrated it. Quotes from the article say just that. The most telling thing in that story, at least for me, is this exchange with Vess:
Quote:
SHH!: And how about yourself, Charles? You obviously have a very distinctive art style, and I wasn't sure how that might translate to real people, but then I saw the picture of Michelle Pfeiffer on the chariot pulled by goats. Vess: I've been trying to figure out how to put it into words, but the best thing is that "Stardust" is a very large world and I built my "Stardust" over there, and they built their "Stardust" over here, and they both co-exist, but they're different visually. It's got the same spirit. It made me very happy to see what they've done. It had some very talented people working on it, and I don't see any problem with re-interpreting anything as long as you've got really keen minds on it.
He says the film was visually different from the illustrations in the book. He says that they re-interpreted it. That tells me that the film was based on the written word, not the illustrations. Which might explain why, in this case, the studio chose to credit them separately.
irrevelent, if people for giving an OMB credit can't use other aspects of this interview to support giving an OMB credit, you can't use portions of the interview to support not giving them an OMB. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
---
there is no credit for Theme by though some people argue that should get credit (maybe some of the same people agains OMB here) there is no credit for additional music, though same situation as Theme by
--
Original Material By and Even Original Characters By, while under the writing section, never exclude characters or material that was created in a form other than writing in a modern language. What if a Picture Book (no text at all as part of the story) was the source for a movies story? Do we not give an OMB and/or OCB credit for the Author (who would likely be the illustrator unless of course the story is written down by someone and then they say, here draw a picture book for this, but how would we necessarily know if that is the case)? Or does it depend. If that person is credit as 'Based on a picture book by [author name]' then yes, but if its 'Based on a picture book drawn(or illustrated) by [author name]' then no? Or it could be 'Based on a book by [author name]' we wouldn't even know its a picture book, so I guess that gets the credit. But if the only credit is 'Based on a book drawn (or illustrated) by [author name] then not?
This better get added to the rules ASAP because it could turn out to be the most confusing rule of them all.
-Agrare ROFLMAO, what a stretch. Are you referring to the Geico cavemen. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: Please be so kind as to show me in the Rules where it even implies that we can use outside resources for this kind of data, I don't see it. We use the credits as they appear On Screen PERIOD, and exactly as they appear On Screen, we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.Illustrated by is not among rthem and use of ANY outside datasource is not specifically allowed. By this logic we could not use the "original material by" credit at all because the "credited as" column in the rules is empty. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: Hmmm maybe we should include storyboard artists as OMB as well. After all their work is ORIGINAL to that film. So that would certainly qualify as OMB.
Skip The story board is usually not published before the film. Therefore "Adapted from another medium" would not fit IMO. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote: Please be so kind as to show me in the Rules where it even implies that we can use outside resources for this kind of data, I don't see it. We use the credits as they appear On Screen PERIOD, and exactly as they appear On Screen, we have a listing of SPECIFIC credit types that we are looking for.Illustrated by is not among rthem and use of ANY outside datasource is not specifically allowed. By this logic we could not use the "original material by" credit at all because the "credited as" column in the rules is empty. Rho: Once again you are only paying half attention. I have said the Rules OR the Program. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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