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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Uncredited Cast part of Credited Crew
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I don't see any benefit in doing this.  Just use the most common form of the name and be done with it.  I don't see any reason to make up data.

The benefit of this is that it will improve the common name, as the common name is the name which is credited the most. And we are not making up data if the information is taken from the credits. In fact the data is incorrect if it tells us a certain person is uncredited when (s)he is not and it's only his/her cast role that's missing. Other than this I believe the checkbox is just there for easy entry and to enlarge the available room for a role name. If it's still allowed to enter suffixes like "(puppeteer)", I do not understand why a manually typed "(uncredited)" has to be a problem.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSrehtims
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 1,796
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I don't think I'm alone, II don't like them,  don't added them and I don't trust uncredited no matter where they come from. We have enough haggles and errors just getting the credits from the DVD.

I seen errors on the films credits, hell some god didn't put them, a human did.
Humans make error. This one admits to making errors, although it appears that
some using this profile are perfect and have never make an error.
[b]
I suggested many moons ago that a separate list should be provided for the uncredited (at least cast) for those of us who don't want to mess with them. Most thought it was good idea.
[/b]
In all cases no one knows where these lists originate from. Now I know thwre a few movie buffs who like to keep tabs on all the actors and their movies. I'm not one of them. I never was into hero worship, not movies stars, sports heroes or what ever.

Just how many profiles that were brought over when Invelos was started are messed up. I'll bet most of the older movies, 1950 and older that have limited cast and crew credits on screen, have cast lists that are copied from imdb, uncredited or not.

Flamingo Road, 1953, UPC 027616253262 has 32 cast members listed only the first 11 are actually credited. The remaining 21 are straight out of imdb, and they are not even marked uncredited.
There is no credit to the submitter or origin of the profile. Just how many profiles in the on line db do think there are like this one. I found this one because I thought I might be able copy some of the crew and cast list for the "Joan Crawford Collection: Volume 2, Flamingo Road" profile. This is not the first time I've seen this. For these box sets I often load profile(s) of the movies to come if they are a available. Then check and update them with the DVD when I get. And many are wrong and obviously copied from imdb.
We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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But seeing how the crew and cast databases are separate, it doesn't matter how they are credited as a crew member if we want to know what their common name is as a cast member.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I don't see any benefit in doing this.  Just use the most common form of the name and be done with it.  I don't see any reason to make up data.

The benefit of this is that it will improve the common name, as the common name is the name which is credited the most.


Wouldn't using the common name as the (uncredited) name do the same thing?  The uncredited names are included in the Credit Lookup Tool.

Quote:
And we are not making up data if the information is taken from the credits. In fact the data is incorrect if it tells us a certain person is uncredited when (s)he is not and it's only his/her cast role that's missing.


We do not enter uncredited crew.  If a crew member is not credited with a cast role, but does play one, then he is uncredited.  To say listing him as 'uncredited' is incorrect makes no sense.

Quote:
Other than this I believe the checkbox is just there for easy entry and to enlarge the available room for a role name. If it's still allowed to enter suffixes like "(puppeteer)", I do not understand why a manually typed "(uncredited)" has to be a problem.


I am not trying to be rude, but it doesn't matter what you believe.  The fact remains there is a checkbox in the program and the rules tell us to use it.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Wouldn't using the common name as the (uncredited) name do the same thing?  The uncredited names are included in the Credit Lookup Tool.

Yes, it does but it does not add the name they are really credited with.

Quote:
We do not enter uncredited crew.  If a crew member is not credited with a cast role, but does play one, then he is uncredited.  To say listing him as 'uncredited' is incorrect makes no sense.

I am not saying we should enter uncredited crew and listing them as uncredited cast is incorrect. I just meant that ignoring their credited names is.

Quote:
I am not trying to be rude, but it doesn't matter what you believe.  The fact remains there is a checkbox in the program and the rules tell us to use it.

Yes, it tells us to use it if they are uncredited but they aren't. It's their cast role that's uncredited.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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But how they are credited as crew bears no relation whatsoever to how we should credit them as cast, they are separate databases and have no effect on each other. So suggesting we record their crew name as part of uncredited cast makes no sense.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantantolod
Since Dec 02, 2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 940
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I think you're over complicating this Martin.

If crew member Rob Smith [Robert Smith] > DOP has an uncredited cast role as "Man crossing the street", what value would having his uncredited cast appearance listed under any name other than his common name? Listing him as Rob Smith will link to all past and future (possible) uncredited or credited appearances this person may make, and if time warrants a change of the common name, then the uncredited appearance will have to be changed to fit the new common name. 

Saying the it does not reflect the name he is really credited with is simply not true. In the crew listing he is entered as Common Name [Credited As] (assuming the crew job is one we track). It makes no difference how they are credited in the crew. Even if in this particular film their crew job is not one we profile, if they have existing, validated crew entries in the DVDP database that create a most credited form of their name, that is what we should use for any and all uncredited appearances.

Quote:
Yes, it tells us to use it if they are uncredited but they aren't. It's their cast role that's uncredited.

The uncredited tick box and the meaning of uncredited refers to only the cast list, so it is entirely appropriate (and required by the rules) to tick it for credited crew members who make an uncredited cast appearance.
Kevin
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Yes, it tells us to use it if they are uncredited but they aren't. It's their cast role that's uncredited.


Yes, their cast role is uncredited which makes them uncredited cast.  As such, you enter their name, role and tick the little box.  The fact that they have a crew credit has no bearing on this issue.

I agree with antolod, you are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.  I just can't figure out why. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
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I completely agree with the Martian
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
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United States Posts: 5,917
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Hiro!
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