Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
Quoting Rifter:

Quote:
You can't do a correct profile strictly by the rules because the rules are in conflict and ambiguous in several areas.  Try to get Hal and his cronies to admit that, however.

But that's not your decision. Until the rules are "fixed", we have to follow them. You can petition Ken & Gerri as much as you like to get them changed but until then we all have to follow the same rules. You can't just decide which rules to follow and which ones to ignore.

Or are you giving us all carte blanche to change the profiles to any way we see fit, and if other people don't like it we can just say "oh, it's the rules - they're vague".

It is patently obvious from the sheer number of disc level profiles associated with TV seasons already in the database that a LOT of people want that format.  That means that the current rules are not doing the job they were intended to do.  The rules ARE vague, and they ARE inadequate for this situation, and a slavish, blinder's-on attitude when dealing with the "other half" is counter productive and devisive, at the least.  All those people are not going to just fade into the wallpaper.

Now, we already came to a compromise on this just last week.  Now, the usual suspects are doing what appears to me their dead level best to break that compromise once again.  Some of us have offered a workable solution for better than two years, yet WE are ones called wrong.  Both sides have to bargain in good faith in order to reach a compromise, and I don't see many on your side willing to even allow there might be a difference, let alone meet us halfway.

I don't know anything about a "compromise".  What I do know is that Ken said on these forum that he saw no problem with people contributing child profiles for TV Sets and that the parent profiles should follow the TV Set Rules and retain all the data accordingly.  In other words, the Parent is not to be treated as a Boxset; that means no boxset contents should be added.

Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

It is now apparent that there actually is a problem.  There is a conflict when the first disc of a single season is used to create a profile for just the episodes on it (as a child profile for that season) AND there is a Complete Series released without UPCs for the individual seasons.  In that case, the disc ID of the first disc in each season needs to be used to profile the entire season, not just that particular disc.

Since the Rules specifically address Complete Series of TV shows, and do not address child profiles for TV Sets, it seems obvious to me that the Complete Series method would take precedence over the child profile method.

Other than this situation, and the fact that people continue to add boxset contents, to the parent profiles, I have no issue with creating child profiles.  Never have!

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

For the sake of those who never read that topic, here's Ken's statement, just so everyone has all the info:

Quote:
General consensus seems to be allowing child profiles for TV box sets, one profile per disc, while still having cast and crew in the parent profile, separated with dividers. 

Users who don't want the child profiles don't download them.  Box sets have an intrinsic automatic lock after first download, so no problem there. 

For those who don't want the cast/crew in the parent profile, they clear it and lock it.

Do I have the summary right?  If so, what are the objections of the dissenters?

OK, on with the fight! 

I think hal9g is right, when that compromise was reached, this problem of child profiles having to represent both the individual disc and the whole season (for multi-season sets) hadn't raised it's ugly head.
I think if you want to keep the child profiles then until we're allowed box sets inside box sets then we're going to have to make sure that not only does the parent profile contain all the season's info, but the 1st child profile does as well. That way, people can download all the info and delete what they don't need locally.
Because the only other option is unfortunately to have 1 season, 1 profile.

Quoting Rifter:

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
I don't know anything about a "compromise".  What I do know is that Ken said on these forum that he saw no problem with people contributing child profiles for TV Sets and that the parent profiles should follow the TV Set Rules and retain all the data accordingly.  In other words, the Parent is not to be treated as a Boxset; that means no boxset contents should be added.

Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

It is now apparent that there actually is a problem.  There is a conflict when the first disc of a single season is used to create a profile for just the episodes on it (as a child profile for that season) AND there is a Complete Series released without UPCs for the individual seasons.  In that case, the disc ID of the first disc in each season needs to be used to profile the entire season, not just that particular disc.

Since the Rules specifically address Complete Series of TV shows, and do not address child profiles for TV Sets, it seems obvious to me that the Complete Series method would take precedence over the child profile method.

Other than this situation, and the fact that people continue to add boxset contents, to the parent profiles, I have no issue with creating child profiles.  Never have!

No, that's YOUR interpretation of what he said.  He said nothing at all about box set contents, either for or against.  You can't assume that he did.  And there is no problem.  You don't like that contents, delete it locally.  Otherwise, leave it alone!

Many of those earlier profiles are from sets that had the discs in their own keep cases, and those have to be profiled individually, just as they were originally.  Those profiles take precedence over reissues, which is what the complete sets are since they don't come in individual keep cases, but digipacks.

Because he did not say anything about it does not mean he endorsed it, either.  Since the Rules say the only time you can apply the boxset rules to TV sets is for Complete Series, conversely, you cannot apply the boxset Rules to single TV Seasons.  I know that is a difficult concept for you to grasp, John, but it is simple and straightforward logic.

In order to start allowing boxset contents, Ken will need to affirm that it is OK to ignore the Current Rules. 

There is no interpretation here, whatsoever.

Quoting Tracer:

Quote:
John, the Buffy season sets did not come in keep cases but in digipacks.

Doesn't matter, there are other TV sets that WERE in keeps, but have been reissued as mega sets in digipack format.  My reasoning still stands.

Quoting pplchamp:

Quote:
Actually...

The rules do not state "You are not allowed to submit child profiles for TV series discs".

it also does not say that you can.

It's a gray area.

I agree, that you couild call that a gray area.

But the fact that a profile following the Rules should not be created because a profile that falls in that gray area is kinda of hard to believe...

Quoting Rifter:

Quote:
For example, when you have a data set that is already broken into convenient chunks, it is good basic design to utilize that pre-established division when setting up the database.  Here, of course, I'm referring to the disc level.  Why, because a disc has a unique identifier - a key - that makes indexing and other functions much easier to accomplish.

But it is not a unique identifier in this case, as the same identifier (the disc 1 ID) is needed for both the season level set in a multi-season set, and the first disc-level profile in a single season set if disc level profiles are used.

So your whole argument breaks down.

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Actually, his argument does not break down, but that's another story and I will save it for another time. But John is right.

Skip

So I am just supposed to take your word for it as you say so? Without any documentation to back it up for the permanent record?