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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Importing data from online resources like IMDB |
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| Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lithurge: Quote:
I can find a statement from 2010, couple of posts on the page.
Ken's statement
This is a stance that Ken has held for as long as I've been using the program and forum, which is since 2002 so I wouldn't hold my breat that it's going to change any time soon.
A friend of mine used a different program for a while when having problems with Profiler losing data. This program used IMDB data, he soon switch back to Profiler because the quality of data was very poor and they're ability or desire to accept user updates seemed to be pretty non-existent.
What you'll also find is those programs won't give you free updates, one of the reasons being they have to pay to use IMDB data.
As you can already do what you want locally using third party programs I really don't see what your issue is. Hello Lithurge, I'm sorry, but I can't select the link, nothing is happening, maybe it's a problem from my side I don't know. But if you say so, I do believe you. But I also have DVD Profiler from the first day (starting when Ken was not sure if DVD profiler would continu, due some internal problems). And it was always a nice filled database. But since 1-2 years, you see that it is getting lesser and lesser. And also it is not always as correct as it may should be. Like also in this database are DVD/movies in that are not released yet and the only think that then is mentioned is the title and maybe a little bit more. So also here it is seen, that it is not as it used to be. and it is not a blame or anything, but just a statement that there will be mostlikely never be a flawless database to be found. Regarding how you will try. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Link works fine for me. Anyhow here's the quote: Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Allow me to clear up any misconceptions. We don't have anything against IMDB - in fact the opposite - we have admiration for their efforts and see value in allowing our users quick access via menu option to their site. Similarly, we link to a variety of other sites (rottentomatoes, metacritic, apple, youtube, wikipedia, yahoo, etc) via the profile links feature. Linking to these sites is a win-win - it generates some amount of traffic for them and provides value to our users.
What we do not allow is submission of data copied from any third party database in violation of that database's policy. If you would like that policy changed you are welcome to discuss it with those third parties. In the mean time our hands are tied and we will not be party to what amounts to data theft.
So, copying the cast from IMDB is not allowed. Nor is (for instance) copying the text of a review from rottentomatoes and submitting it as your own via the review submission feature. We respect copyright and licensing, and are very familiar with the effort and resources that go into maintaining user-submitted databases of this size. We will not budge on this policy.
Note that this policy covers the online database (contribution) system only. As previously mentioned, we do not attempt to control any aspect of the data you keep locally. That is between you and whatever data source you choose.
I hope that clears things up. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting JMG51:
In my opinion, IMDB is great and probably the best online film database (another is BFI), but yeah, tons of errors (I spot them all the time), but considering the sheer volume of data that IMDB handles and that anyone can submit it, it is unavoidable. The DVD Profiler database is almost as bad....almost every film that I have entered into my collection has had errors and/or omissions in it (on DVDP database)....which is why I check every piece of info against 5-6 databaes and my own extensive notes made while I watched a film in question.
I love DVD Profiler, can't believe it took me so long to get it ... the filter/search functions alone are worth the price.
The reason I don't contribute to the DVDP database is simply because I use it to catalog the films I have on DVD. I do not catalog the DVD (all my DVDs are store bought btw, not home burned)...so anything relating to the film gets entered, anything relating to the DVD does not...so, not worth much to most (all?) here, me thinks.
Hello JMG51,
I totally agree with you, for me too it is mainly for the basicly for the film details then the DVD details. And I also think the most here will use it for that.
And if I check the database from DVDP it is currently 623.858 entries. Then if you concider that 1 movie can have up to 10-20 entries (different countries, extented or not, media type and more of such and also Disc ID) then the real data that DVD profiler now holds, is not that much, it's just a fraction of the data IMDB holds.
And like you said, also in DVDP database are enough errors to be found and indeed the more volume, the more errors. But if you look at the percentage, then I'm not sure if IMDB would be worse then DVDP. |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lewis_Prothero: Quote:
Link works fine for me.
Anyhow here's the quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Allow me to clear up any misconceptions. We don't have anything against IMDB - in fact the opposite - we have admiration for their efforts and see value in allowing our users quick access via menu option to their site. Similarly, we link to a variety of other sites (rottentomatoes, metacritic, apple, youtube, wikipedia, yahoo, etc) via the profile links feature. Linking to these sites is a win-win - it generates some amount of traffic for them and provides value to our users.
What we do not allow is submission of data copied from any third party database in violation of that database's policy. If you would like that policy changed you are welcome to discuss it with those third parties. In the mean time our hands are tied and we will not be party to what amounts to data theft.
So, copying the cast from IMDB is not allowed. Nor is (for instance) copying the text of a review from rottentomatoes and submitting it as your own via the review submission feature. We respect copyright and licensing, and are very familiar with the effort and resources that go into maintaining user-submitted databases of this size. We will not budge on this policy.
Note that this policy covers the online database (contribution) system only. As previously mentioned, we do not attempt to control any aspect of the data you keep locally. That is between you and whatever data source you choose.
I hope that clears things up. Hello Lewis, Thanks for you reply, I realy didn't get that link working. But as I read is that DVDP doesn't alow IMDB's or any other, data to be uploaded into DVDP's database. But I don't see a statement, that is saying that DVD profiler doesn't has an oppertunity to implant this into DVDP on a legal way. Meaning yes, maybe there is money imvolved. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Right.... imdb or any other 3rd party source is not allowed. As it says in the rules. We have to take all info (with few exceptions noted in the rules) from the actual disc/case/credits. Unfortunately that don't stop people from trying. I have seen people go as far as lying in their notes stating cast/crew came from credits when they are actually an exact match for imdb... not matching the credits at all.
I am personally against what you suggest (something that will not change)... but all that matters is if Ken wants to do it or not. I seen him take many suggestions from here... at the same time I seen him decide to go the other way (at present time at least). Though he seldomly lets us know before he puts a new version out. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | For the record here is another post from Ken about imdb (or any 3rd party database)... Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Quoting Repter:
Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
I don't think so you are using imdb as a source, what is not allowed due to copyright issues?
That would be plain ridiculous... it's not like you actually copied it, especially in the case of merely a title. Maybe we should have some code, like : got the info from BDMI  .
This is not a wink wink, nudge nudge "rule". We do not want IMDB data, or data from any third party database, entered into DVD Profiler. The reason for this is that they have invested much time and money (as we have) into generating and maintaining their database. Copying their database is theft. If that weren't enough reason, third party databases routinely spike their data with "poison" data - false data designed to identify and prove cases of theft.
The requirement for naming the source is not designed to allow Invelos plausible deniability. If the submitted data came from the IMDB or another source, we need to know that so we may properly decline the submission. Falsely stating the source of data in an attempt to bypass this will result in an immediate and permanent ban from contributing. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | I use IMDb, TCM and many other online resources that give me information that can not be found on profiler.
I also don't have any problem if one want's to import and utilize that data for one's personal use. I believe there are invelos' users who have downloads that can even help you with that request.
The use of multiple third party resources is used only in very specific instances and care must be taken in their use.
Careful documentation will allow the voters/invelos to evaluate whether or not any contributions containing such information should be allowed.
I do understand you being "lazy" and dislike for having to do all the work involved. There are ways to lessen this workload as others have posted.
But, this is a user based program and it only works with the contributions of the community. It would be nice if everyone who uses the program decided to contribute once in awhile.
When you find a profile lacking, give back a little to the community who has saved you so much work with their contributions. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
But I don't see a statement, that is saying that DVD profiler doesn't has an oppertunity to implant this into DVDP on a legal way. Meaning yes, maybe there is money imvolved. There is no 'maybe' about it, there is money involved. As I stated, back on page 2, the minimum starting price for using IMDb data, as of 2010, was $15,000. This is not the first time this has been asked for and Ken has sated, in no uncertain terms, that they have no plans to license IMDb data. That being the case, your only option is the plug-in that has been suggested. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
Quoting iPatsa:
Quote:
It's the user built database that makes DVD Profiler unique and sets it apart from all the IMDb clones out there. But of course, if the users don't want to contribute to the database, it becomes less usable. So if you want a better database, I suggest you start by contributing the titles you own.
That's my point exactlly. The database is becomming more and more useless. And I guess, that more people don't want to keep typing everything in all the time, that there are more like me, lazy if you will. But like you said, that if lesser users are contributing, then where is there a database at the end? Then it will be useless and all you have is a PC software that you can maintain yourself. And in the end will be vanished (Invelos will not update, when a new Windows or such will come out), because too less people will use it at all. Then what? Well I'm sorry but with that kind of reasoning you wont get any sympathy from me. If people prefer inferior data that is their choice then and nothing can be done about it. It's thanks to the great work by our contributors over the years that has built this database and allowing it to be compromised for convenience would render all those thousands of hours invested to amount to nothing. I'd rather be without it then. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | BTW, if there was any justice in the world IMDb should licence OUR data.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting iPatsa: Quote:
BTW, if there was any justice in the world IMDb should licence OUR data. Fortunately, this will never happen. "Our" data (for me, it is not mine, it is what Invelos wants) ,use, for example, Francois Berleand, François Berleand, Francois Berléand and François Berléand (the only correct one) to list an actor who never used any alternative to his real name. IMDb uses the correct name. The problem is, when you want to have the list of movies in your collection with this actor, the different forms do not link together. Thousands of accented names are concerned by this nonsense. Invelos database is a complete mess, totally useless, and when rules asked me to add spelling mistakes that do not exist in credits, I just chose to stop any contribution. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Invelos database is a complete mess, totally useless, and when rules asked me to add spelling mistakes that do not exist in credits, I just chose to stop any contribution. I completely disagree with your assessment of the database. Profiler may have a lot of mistakes but so does IMDb or any other database for that matter. I have yet to come across any database that is perfect. There are linking problems but that is just one small part of profiler - these can be solved quite easity locally. The inability to contribute those type of changes to the online database does not make profiler "totally useless". | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | If humans screw with it, it is suspect. We are quite fallible you know. Even encyclopedias have mistakes.
Only government officials don't make mistakes, but I'm not sure they are human.
I copy cast/crew list from where ever I can find it to WordPad, then correct this list to agree with the DVD credits.
It saves typing and with these 79 year old fingers it reduces the the errors.
I did take typing in high school (1950), I thought it might help for college and besides that was where the girls were. | | | We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln |
| | Registered: June 1, 2013 |  Posts: 217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting iPatsa:
Quote:
BTW, if there was any justice in the world IMDb should licence OUR data.
Fortunately, this will never happen. "Our" data (for me, it is not mine, it is what Invelos wants) ,use, for example, Francois Berleand, François Berleand, Francois Berléand and François Berléand (the only correct one) to list an actor who never used any alternative to his real name. IMDb uses the correct name.
The problem is, when you want to have the list of movies in your collection with this actor, the different forms do not link together.
Thousands of accented names are concerned by this nonsense.
Invelos database is a complete mess, totally useless, and when rules asked me to add spelling mistakes that do not exist in credits, I just chose to stop any contribution. Yes. Not to mention the mix up of people with the same name....couple random recent examples ....a profile for Sunset Blvd shows the film editor as being Arthur Schmidt (born 1937), which means he was 12 when he cut the classic film. The actual editor is Arthur P. Schmidt, born 1912. A profile for Tombstone shows a cast member as being Pat Brady (born 1914). This is a different Pat Brady. The Pat Brady born in 1914, died in 1972...and was a regular in many Roy Rogers westerns. Yes ,all film databases have errors/omissions, but comparing the Invelos "database" to IMDB's is a bit of a joke. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,747 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Srehtims: Quote:
I copy cast/crew list from where ever I can find it to WordPad, then correct this list to agree with the DVD credits.
It saves typing and with these 79 year old fingers it reduces the the errors.
I did take typing in high school (1950), I thought it might help for college and besides that was where the girls were. Try to use my CCE combo. First use Cast/Crew Edit 2 to download the cast/crew list from IMDb. Then copy the data from CCE2 to Freestyle Cast/Crew Edit. In FCCE you have a spreadsheet where you can modify any data that's wrong in IMDb and doesn't match the credits. Then you can simply copy the data from FCCE to DVDP. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Profiler may have a lot of mistakes but so does IMDb or any other database for that matter. I have yet to come across any database that is perfect. Nobody is perfect, and of course mistakes can happen everywhere. Most mistakes are made unvoluntarily : People try to do their best, and make mistakes, OK. The problem with dvdprofiler is that mistakes are made voluntarily, and requested by rules. When the correct name is MELANIE LAURENT = Mélanie Laurent, and rules ask to enter Melanie Laurent, rules ask to enter voluntarily wrong information. Invelos, as I can know, is the only database that asks to create errors. I do not call that mistakes, I call that sabotage. And the result cannot be used by anybody wanting correct linking. We have the same problem with overviews. Invelos rules ask to reproduce voluntarily unvoluntary spelling mistakes, and this ruins every search by keywords in overviews. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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